Could Rebirth end with "everything" being in-continuity?

[johnboy3434]

Just a thought about the ultimate direction of the DCU once the consequences of Rebirth are sorted out: What if it results in a sort of "everything is canon" policy? We see Wonder Woman and Batman/Catwoman remembering fragments of their earlier incarnations' histories rather than their own, so what if Johns ultimately tells the writers to run with that? The heroes will become aware that they currently inhabit version 6.0 of their universe, and each of them remembers all the adventures that their Earth-Two/Earth-One/post-CoIE/post-ZH/post-IC predecessors had.


For example, Bruce Wayne will remember his parents' murderer never being found, but he will also remember Joe Chill being responsible. To the characters, it will effectively be like DC has had one continuous universe since 1935, even though it hasn't. And the best thing is that it doesn't constrict the writers afterward. Unless someone wants to retell exactly the same story, the characters having this knowledge wouldn't impact their future adventures beyond the writers' willingness to bring it up.

[GlennSimpson]

No, I think at MOST the heroes will find out that their timeline was altered, and maybe some basic information about their previous lives (in the form of information, not necessarily memories) and then they will continue to live their new lives, unwilling to change their lives to an unfamiliar one.

However, what we as readers will see is more things happening in the new52 universe that are similar to things that happened previously, like Green Arrow and Black Canary getting together.

I also think DC will not mention the 5-year limit any time soon, to let it stretch out a bit, but not with any sort of formal exclamation of the new length.

[sustainentropy]

Just a thought about the ultimate direction of the DCU once the consequences of Rebirth are sorted out: What if it results in a sort of "everything is canon" policy? We see Wonder Woman and Batman/Catwoman remembering fragments of their earlier incarnations' histories rather than their own, so what if Johns ultimately tells the writers to run with that? The heroes will become aware that they currently inhabit version 6.0 of their universe, and each of them remembers all the adventures that their Earth-Two/Earth-One/post-CoIE/post-ZH/post-IC predecessors had.


For example, Bruce Wayne will remember his parents' murderer never being found, but he will also remember Joe Chill being responsible. To the characters, it will effectively be like DC has had one continuous universe since 1935, even though it hasn't. And the best thing is that it doesn't constrict the writers afterward. Unless someone wants to retell exactly the same story, the characters having this knowledge wouldn't impact their future adventures beyond the writers' willingness to bring it up.

I personally think that it will end with a vague "most things happened", although they won't tell us exactly what or how they fit together and it will be bookended by the origins and the modern day events from Rebirth. Basically a modern update to the DCU.

Superman post "Superman: Reborn" for example evidently reinstates a lot of the characters past experiences, but now they happened to him in his updated look.

rebirthsupermanhistory.jpg

[Ascended]

Well, I think Superman might end up being an example of what post-Rebirth will look like, and we've seen some references to pre-Crisis history that Superdad wouldn't have experienced (such as, I think, the rainbow Batman costume). So if that's anything to go by, they might just be going for a "everything counts" version of history.

It's not hard to imagine them doing it either. The New52 reboot caused serious problems despite being a commercial success. COIE caused so many problems DC was still trying to fix it over twenty years later. Maybe they're thinking the long-term problems of reboots aren't worth the short term gains anymore. And Marvel has never had a line-wide hard reboot (unless you count Hickman's Secret Wars, which I sorta do) and it's worked for them. So I could see DC going that way and putting their fractured history together into a composite whole.

But if they do, I dont think it'll be a overlapping memory kinda thing. They tried that after Infinite Crisis and it didnt really work out. I think they'll do a "Morrison on Batman" thing and try to squeeze in as many elements and stories as possible into the timeline, and odds are they'll likely leave it vague enough readers will have to fill in the gaps themselves.

Basically it'll be DC playing "What if we didn't do a hard reboot after COIE and let things evolve naturally into post-Crisis?"

[Nite-Wing]

Impossible for that to work
You already retconned several characters to be a lot younger and kept the generations for the most part intact would introduce all the problems that COIE and zero hour fixed
I can see a lot of things staying the same with Flash and GL currently
Most of Rebirth wherever it leads to will fix the titans and Superman line

[Ascended]

Depends on how they do it, I suppose.

Morrison turned a lot of the wild, Silver Age Batman stories into unsolved cases in his black book and a lot of those stories were hinted at being hallucinations Bruce underwent while under the effects of Scarecrow's fear gas or some other thing. So if DC did something like that and fudged the details it might work.

Im not sure if it will but DC has never backed down from bad ideas.

[Rod G]

No, I think at MOST the heroes will find out that their timeline was altered, and maybe some basic information about their previous lives (in the form of information, not necessarily memories) and then they will continue to live their new lives, unwilling to change their lives to an unfamiliar one.

However, what we as readers will see is more things happening in the new52 universe that are similar to things that happened previously, like Green Arrow and Black Canary getting together.

I also think DC will not mention the 5-year limit any time soon, to let it stretch out a bit, but not with any sort of formal exclamation of the new length.

I might hopefully live with that, Glenn.

God knows the last thing the DCU needs is to regress to the way things were in 2000.

[johnboy3434]

Impossible for that to work
You already retconned several characters to be a lot younger and kept the generations for the most part intact would introduce all the problems that COIE and zero hour fixed
I can see a lot of things staying the same with Flash and GL currently
Most of Rebirth wherever it leads to will fix the titans and Superman line

I don't think you understood me correctly: These would still be the New 52 versions of the characters, but they would hold all the memories of their past incarnations, whether those events actually happened to the New 52 versions or not. So the retconned younger heroes would remember things that happened to "them" when they were older, etc.

[HJSSAE]

There have been retcons upon retcons upon retcons. I take it to mean that everything is canon somewhere in the multiverse, but not necessarily earth-prime. For example, if EVERYTHING is canon, then Superman should remember his WWII propaganda years. However, it makes no sense for modern Clark to remember that. I am guessing most everything post-crisis is canon, but everything is canon somewhere in the multiverse.

[bat39]

I think the "everything is canon" approach taken by Morrison to Batman MIGHT just be feasible for Rebirth (and ultimately they will be aiming for that). But I don't think this "everyone remembers their past lives" thing is really something DC would be willing to go along with.

Granted, it makes sense for some characters. Like Wally, where such knowledge goes along with his abilities (and the Flash mythos is replete with alternate timelines and parallel earths anyway). It might even be okay for Superman to have some awareness of previous versions of his life (I think he's the one character big enough, 'super' enough to handle that knowledge and not consider it a big deal). Wonder Woman kinda sorta is being set up to remember both versions of Themyscera while knowing that the New 52 one was 'fake'.

But no, I don't think EVERY character in the DCU remembering other versions of their lives make sense. The OP's example of Batman remembering catching Joe Chill and not catching him particularly rings to mind. With Batman, if they can find a way to bring both Year One and Zero Year into continuity I'll be more than happy...but that has to be part of one coherent backstory (or hell, maybe continuity is treated as loose and it depends on the writer)...and not as Bruce remembering two versions of his origin at the same time and acknowledging it as such.

For the most part "everything counts" as a strategy can work (look at Marvel), but given the sheer number of origin stories and retellings, at some point some choices have to be made between one version or another. Like, you can claim that Justice League International, Grant Morrison's Big 7 and the current iteration of the League are all part of the same continuity - but at some point you're gonna have to definitively answer "Did the Justice League form while fighting Darkseid or the Apellexians? And was J'onn a founder or Cyborg?"

[Flash Gordon]

I just hope that I'm in continuity, when all is said and done.

I've been so confused as to who, or where, I even am.

[Sacred Knight]

I also doubt its going to be an overlapping continuity deal. At least, that would be insanely stupid. Things are already convoluted and confusing as they stand. They need to be working to make things as cohesive as possible, not more confusing. Everyone being like Wally right now would be a massive mistake. When Rebirth is done the characters should and likely will have one set of memories in a complete timeline. Obviously loosely compiled, as obviously all history isn't going to connect cleanly, but at the same time no alternate overlapping memories in characters. Whatever sticks from New 52 will connect to post-Crisis. Whatever they may (or may not) bring back from the pre-Crisis era will connect. It won't be "Oh I remember this story, but I remember it as if it happened in another life". Just no.

[Waterfall]

My best case scenario for Wally is that they are going to cram his entire Flash run into 2-3 years in the expanded timeline. Changing Robin age back to 13 would also help a lot to teenager heroes.

[bat39]

My best case scenario for Wally is that they are going to cram his entire Flash run into 2-3 years in the expanded timeline. Changing Robin age back to 13 would also help a lot to teenager heroes.

With Wally, its a little complicated by the fact that he only became the Flash because Barry died, and Barry only ever died if something like COIE happened in the timeline (which a short while back it was implied did happen).

I suppose a simpler way to make it work would be to reveal that Barry got lost in the Speed Force while fighting the Anti-Monitor and was presumed dead (and maybe everyone can acknowledge that there was a 'Crisis' that involved some weird timey-wimey stuff which most people can't clearly remember). So Wally became Flash for a while and served in the JLA and THEN Kadabra got him?

Its a bit tricky with the Flashes because they have the potential to be aware of the previous timeline, yet the way they're playing it its kinda like they're both getting a 'do over' of their old lives (Wally with Linda and with being a Flash, Barry with Iris). A lot depends on whether the 'stolen time' actually gets restored in some for or not.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

Jim Lee has said that in the Rebirth story "Geoff Johns has basically created a story that takes the new 52 and supplants it in the continuity that came before it" so I think that is really the template for Rebirth. Now, do I think that they will reinstate everything from the Golden age into one massive continuity? No. That would basically be returning to a post-crisis status quo which I don't think anybody wants. Basically I think it will be a return to Pre-flashpoint while keeping the New 52 stories in continuity but from an event perspective(kind of like heroes reborn, best comparison I can think of) while at the same time explaining(apologizing) why some characters acted so weirdly and out of character in some past stories like Identity Crisis, Cry for Justice, etc. Wally explains in the Rebirth Special that the guy trying to weaken us was acting "already before the flashpoint". It definitely wont be a slightly tweaked New 52. Dc already had plans to restore Wally without ever being the flash/combine Thawne reverse flash and Hunter Solomen Zoom into one character before Rebirth, so I think it will be more drastic than some people are thinking. If Dc wanted the new 52 universe with some slight retcons, well they already had the opportunity to do the New 52 "zero hour" and passed. Dan and Jim basically admitted their approach wasn't working and went to Johns to fix it. You don't go to Geoff Johns, have him write a story referencing all kinds of continuity complete with flashbacks to silver age teen titans if you don't plan on restoring some continuity. Rebirth is playing the long game being planned out to 2018/2019 so I think it will come in two or three waves. And they really haven't even begun to try to solve the mystery yet. In reference to the Superman Reborn cover posted above, I personally think its the Nuperman and his history in the background while Superdad is dashing to action in the front(either that or hes absorbing the Nuperman's memories and reliving them, while also reflecting on his own life)., regardless I think its too early yet to have a big status shakeup. And in the solicits for the Superman Reborn Aftermath Superman gets more involved in the mystery finally telling Batman/ Flash about the Crisis and what happened to time. So whatever happens in Superman Reborn it looks like he doesn't forget everything from before the flashpoint, which would just kind of go against the whole initiative of Rebirth in the first place. But if that's all Rebirth does is retcon New 52 with updated revisionist costumes, well that would be a big letdown to say the least. from Superman solicits "

Following the epic struggle against [REDACTED], Superman examines his entire history—the birth of Jon, the marriage of Lois and Clark, their lives at the Daily Planet—to discover who tried to destroy his life. Who is waiting in the shadows? Who is Mr. Oz? All questions the Man of Steel cannot answer alone. It is time for him to unite the entire Superman-Family!

It doesn't sound from this that he forgets his memories.

from the Superman 19 solicit “SUPERMAN REBORN” part three! In the penultimate chapter of this tale the life of Superman’s son hangs in the balance—and the Man of Steel faces the truth about his life!

who knows what happens but Jon is still alive after Superman Reborn. So that's about all I could mine for now