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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Sarcasm aside, the fact that the Legion are on SUPERGIRL increases the chances of an LSH comic book.
    How exactly does that happen?

    The fact that something is on a TV show doesn't really guarantee anything unless it turns out to be wildly popular/successful, and even then, it may take time to decide to produce and finally publish it.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    And the best stories for the Legion were when Superboy was around. He didn't need to be active in every story, but his presence seemed to go with better quality writing and art.
    Incredibly subjective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    He was there in the '60s, in the high quality ADVENTURE stories.
    I love the Silver Age stuff, but while I may consider it the best material the Silver Age has, a small handful of stories aside, I wouldn't consider the vast majority of the era to be among the Legion's best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES--another great period for the LSH with spine-tingling tales.

    When Superboy was moved out of the title that he created and it just became THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, the result was a mediocre holding period for the group. Then Superbody returns once more and we get the Levitz and Giffen stories in the early '80s.
    Meanwhile I have no disagreement on this end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Some people like the TMK phase, but it's a polarizing period for the team.
    It isn't perfect, but as a whole I think I prefer Five Years Later to the vast majority of what came before it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    And that leads to all the reboots in the '90s and '00s.
    And for many of us, the Reboot Era (1994-2004) is the best the Legion has ever been. And in that era, Superman wasn't even the sole inspiration for the team, let alone a member.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Yet the infusion of Superman, Supergirl and Superboy (Kon-El) brings about some better times for the group.
    Much as I love Kon, I felt his appearances dragged down the bits of the Reboot era he was around for (especially when their final story was made all about him), Supergirl taking over the Threeboot book is when it lost any chance of being good and the Retroboot is generally reviled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    This seems like an insoluble problem. The Legion are at their best with Superboy in the group, but Superboy being in the group will doom the team to more reboots.
    More like it's a non-existent problem that you're making up based off your own subjective views.

    In regards to that last part though, I think we'll be seeing yet another reboot when the Legion does return. The Nu52 book ruined many things and not many even read it, and even before the Nu52, the retroboot wasn't doing well. And it'd just be confusing to say that those stories were the last thing that are canon, especially when this is a time that the Legion needs to become accessible to new readers. So I imagine that we'll be seeing a team that looks and sounds a lot like the original Legion, much as I wish they'll be based on the Reboot versions, but without any of the previous history.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Incredibly subjective.
    You write that as if I'm trying to pull a fast one and dupe everyone into accepting my post as an objective statement of a universal truth. It would help if you read the whole paragraph (or better yet the whole post) as one cohesive thing. Then it comes across as a credible subjective argument--what I happen to think.

    Look at the whole parargraph (the bolded part shows that I was indicating a subjective point of view).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I started reading about the Legion thanks to Superboy/Superman in the '60s. So I think Clark is the perfect gateway character to bring readers into the Legion. You're taking a metaphorical journey through time to visit them in the future and Superboy facilitates that. And the best stories for the Legion were when Superboy was around. He didn't need to be active in every story, but his presence seemed to go with better quality writing and art.
    But even if I never overtly stated "I think" in the argument, it's just common sense--and courtesy--to accept that it's what I think. Why would I say something that isn't what I think?
    sorry 🍁

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I am of two minds about Superboy. One one hand I love him as a member of the Legion and learning and being friends with people his own age. One the other hand I hate the idea of Clark being Superboy out side of when he is with the Legion. I never liked the Superboy stories of him running around Smallville and the like.

    If they could once and for all set it up that Clark was only Superboy when he was hanging out with the Legion that would be perfect in my mind. Maybe Saturn Girl puts a subconcious command in his head that influences him to not use his powers too much when he is home until he is older and better prepared to take on the role of Superman or something like that.
    I'm with you here, I think he should only be Superboy when with the Legion. He doesn't even have to wear the suit, I'd go with the jeans and t shirt look Morrison gave him during his run.

    I only look back on the 80's Superboy book with great fondness for the Schaffenberger art, so seamless and neat.
    Read my free superhero webcomic, The Ill!

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  5. #80
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    Glad to see a LOSH book coming.

    But I really hope they get some new blood on the book. Balance out the old-school cheesiness of the Legion (which you have to keep) with someone with a youthful, fresh voice and a sleek clean artstyle. I'd love to see the Super Sons team take a crack at it.

    And yes, I definitely want Superboy as the main character, be it young Clark or Jon.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeMonster View Post
    I'd love to see the Super Sons team take a crack at it.
    Thanks, but I'd actually want a new Legion book to be readable.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeMonster View Post
    And yes, I definitely want Superboy as the main character, be it young Clark or Jon.
    Thanks, but I'd actually want a new Legion book to be readable.

    Also, Legion books shouldn't have a main character. My fear of a Super being one after the Threeboot is why I'm so against any of them being involved. This is a cast of dozens and if you have a main character, especially a Super, most of them will never get to do anything.And in the case of Jon, he already has two books where he's a main character. Little brat doesn't need a third.

  7. #82
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Sarcasm aside, the fact that the Legion are on SUPERGIRL increases the chances of an LSH comic book. So in that wise it's better to have them than not, if your goal is to get a comic book.

    I started reading about the Legion thanks to Superboy/Superman in the '60s. So I think Clark is the perfect gateway character to bring readers into the Legion. You're taking a metaphorical journey through time to visit them in the future and Superboy facilitates that. And the best stories for the Legion were when Superboy was around. He didn't need to be active in every story, but his presence seemed to go with better quality writing and art.

    He was there in the '60s, in the high quality ADVENTURE stories--but not really when they were moved to the back of ACTION and went through a horrible period. The Legion were nearly dead in the early '70s, but managed to make a comeback in the back pages of SUPERBOY, before taking over the title which was eventually changed to SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES--another great period for the LSH with spine-tingling tales. When Superboy was moved out of the title that he created and it just became THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, the result was a mediocre holding period for the group. Then Superboy returns once more and we get the Levitz and Giffen stories in the early '80s.

    After Crisis and the mandated departure of Superboy, the quality steadily went downhill. Some people like the TMK phase, but it's a polarizing period for the team. And that leads to all the reboots in the '90s and '00s. Yet the infusion of Superman, Supergirl and Superboy (Kon-El) brings about some better times for the group.

    Having said all that, I see Clark's participation as problematic because it ties the team too much to the 21st century and the ever-changing DC continuity. And that's what created all the mess for the Legion. As long as they have to connect with present continuity, they can't establish their own consistent universe in the 31st century.

    This seems like an insoluble problem. The Legion are at their best with Superboy in the group, but Superboy being in the group will doom the team to more reboots.
    You make some good points, but I have slightly different opinions on some aspects. All are my opinions, of course.

    While it can be argued the best Legion stories were with Superboy, I would maintain that after Superboy left and the book reverted to being LSH only in issue 259, Superboy was only there for the big stories like Great Darkness and weddings. You knew that if Superboy was needed, something was big. This mindset makes a constant Superboy presense somewhat counterproductive. I'm also not sure a Legion that can't stand without Superboy should carry a book. I do think it's possible, of course.

    Clark as Superboy might work as a situation where he is mindwiped before returning to his present day. Of course, the Legion would provide him with a cpstume complete with red shorts on the outside. As for reboots, I'm not sure what's happening as the multiple Supermen (Nuperman and Superdad, did I get the names right?) each had their own Legion. I'm guessing that only one Superman and one Legion makes it through after Rebirth (and probably Action 1,000).

    In any case, though, the addition oof the Legion to the Superman mythos is important. They give him a group to belong to and feel less alone. My opinion is that Superman as a character needs the Legion more than they need him. From a sales view, that might be different.

    But I'm frustrated. FF, JSA, and LSH. 'Nuff said.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I'm also not sure a Legion that can't stand without Superboy should carry a book. I do think it's possible, of course.
    No kidding. Eyeroll

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    But I'm frustrated. FF, JSA, and LSH. 'Nuff said.
    Much as I want the other two, I'm in the camp that doesn't want the Fantastic Four back. If a character or team is lucky enough to get a definitive happy ending, it shouldn't be stripped away from them IMO.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeMonster View Post
    Glad to see a LOSH book coming.
    We don't yet have any information on if/when one may be coming.

    Speculation that we would get one has been on-going for over a year-and-a-half, but nothing further has been announced yet.

    More recent speculation is that either Doomsday Clock and/or members of the Legion showing up on the Supergirl TV show could be the catalyst that causes something to finally happen, but we still haven't moved beyond that speculation phase yet.

  10. #85
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Thanks, but I'd actually want a new Legion book to be readable.

    Also, Legion books shouldn't have a main character. My fear of a Super being one after the Threeboot is why I'm so against any of them being involved. This is a cast of dozens and if you have a main character, especially a Super, most of them will never get to do anything.And in the case of Jon, he already has two books where he's a main character. Little brat doesn't need a third.
    I know you have your issues with Jon, but I'd love to see him have a Legion adventure .

    I don't want him as the main character or anything, but I think it'd be fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Much as I want the other two, I'm in the camp that doesn't want the Fantastic Four back. If a character or team is lucky enough to get a definitive happy ending, it shouldn't be stripped away from them IMO.
    Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm would disagree...as would a lot of Sue Storm fans.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I know you have your issues with Jon, but I'd love to see him have a Legion adventure .
    No issues with Jon coming to the future for an adventure every few years or so. Okay, some issues, but that's entirely different from him being the protagonist or even just being a regular member.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Johnny Storm and Ben Grimm would disagree...as would a lot of Sue Storm fans.
    I mean, I am a Johnny and Ben fan, at least in the way that they're my favorites of the four. That said, I'm fully aware there's a split in people who want them back and people who don't.

  12. #87
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    No kidding. Eyeroll
    This was part of a polite, grown-up conversation where the intention was to express a slightly different opinion without being disagreeable. Generally, this leads to more being said and a greater knowledge of the topic. Finding isolated points and being a smartass doesn't add anything to the conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Much as I want the other two, I'm in the camp that doesn't want the Fantastic Four back. If a character or team is lucky enough to get a definitive happy ending, it shouldn't be stripped away from them IMO.
    There's a whole Marvel forum where multiple FF threads live.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    This was part of a polite, grown-up conversation where the intention was to express a slightly different opinion without being disagreeable. Generally, this leads to more being said and a greater knowledge of the topic. Finding isolated points and being a smartass doesn't add anything to the conversation.
    I kept my response laconic and snarky because I didn't feel like repeating myself again. You said that you thought it was possible for the Legion to carry a book without Superboy, when we already know this as fact thanks to the Reboot era.

  14. #89
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    I kept my response laconic and snarky because I didn't feel like repeating myself again. You said that you thought it was possible for the Legion to carry a book without Superboy, when we already know this as fact thanks to the Reboot era.
    The reboot era was in the last century. Newsflash: comic buying habits have changed since then.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    The reboot era was in the last century.
    And here I thought the years from 2001 to 2004 were part of the 21st Century.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Newsflash: comic buying habits have changed since then.
    That is correct. Today, DC only has 14 ongoing titles that manage to sell above 30,000 in the direct market and several of those will be dropping below that point in the next month or two. However the Legion is something there's clear demand for. It's one of the things constantly brought up alongside Captain Marvel and JSA. And you want to talk about comic book buying habits having changed? The last time the Legion was successful WITH Superboy was the early 80's.
    Last edited by Assam; 01-13-2018 at 10:37 AM.

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