Squadron Supreme #15

[theoneandonly]

They performed OKAY against the Uncanny Avengers... even though they lost.

But yeah... once Adam essentially cumberstomped the entire team by himself, it was obvious the notion of them being some sort of Avenger busting super team was pretty much out the window.

Really that's not shocking though... Squadron Supreme's have been getting their butts handed to them by the Avengers for decades. This groups one claim to fame I suppose is that they managed to avoid getting mind controlled for more than a week and a half. That's gotta be a Squadron record.

yes they do seem to have fallen under mind control frequently to the point that there only purpose was to fight each other or the avengers under orders. Cap even delivered a sharp barb to Hyperion on the fact in Kurt busiek avengers run.

[Vic Vega]

yes they do seem to have fallen under mind control frequently to the point that there only purpose was to fight each other or the avengers under orders. Cap even delivered a sharp barb to Hyperion on the fact in Kurt busiek avengers run.

That Squadron got mind controlled so often that the Avengers thought that they had an inherent weakness to it.

As far as this Squadron goes, if there ever was a market for a Marvel version of a meaner Justice League, it would have needed something other
than a bunch of C listers (at best) on the team.

That it even got to 15 issues is a surprise to me.

[Rumble]

Hey remember the preview issue where they were assessing all the Avengers team that would be after them after they did "what as necessary"

And then they got stomped by the UA

then stomped by Adam

then stomped by SHIELD

this is the worst "super powerful" team i've ever seen lol

That was the biggest selling point to me for the team. It made you think they were going to be this cerebral unit that would have a hand in all of the major stuff going on.

But they were omitted from Pleasant Hill, no say so or impact. Omitted from Civil War II, no screen time, just a throw-away butt kicking by Adam. No crossovers with the Ultimates or New Avengers, and that brief one with the UA was more so deflating than anything.

The premise was one of those marketed concepts where if they weren't going to be embraced/incorporated by the greater MU, then the book was going to face plant very quickly. Even still, that doesn't excuse the meh plot points and character interactions once it was established that this book wasn't going to be what it advertised itself as.

[Michael Watkins]

That Squadron got mind controlled so often that the Avengers thought that they had an inherent weakness to it.

As far as this Squadron goes, if there ever was a market for a Marvel version of a meaner Justice League, it would have needed something other
than a bunch of C listers (at best) on the team.

That it even got to 15 issues is a surprise to me.

i'm not even sure what that means. anyone with a power prism is, at least, B-list. Blur outmaneuvered Quicksilver. Nighthawk just embarrassed Hawkeye in Avengers Occupy. and was Hyperion C-List when he was an Avenger? people are just projecting their personal bias onto it.

[Hypestyle]

so what's happening with the team now? Has Sub-mariner returned?
How does the team pursue its agenda now?

[JudicatorPrime]

would be cool if the BLur would meet the new characters from the new universe in the Ultimates book

It would have been cool if Ewing had used the Squadron Supreme, instead of the New Universe group of Troubleshooters, in the Ultimates.

[Michael Watkins]

As the allegorical Justice League of DC, does Nighthawk find a niche as strong as Batman? Are we comfortable that Hyperion is Marvels Superman? The other members don't seem to match their counterparts as well. Hell they even killed the counterpart of Aquaman, Namor.

he would find a niche if someone would write him properly. Sentry is Marvel's Superman. Hyperion is a team beater who is routinely used as an antagonist. I had hoped that they were going to use this book to elevate him/flesh him out. they only killed Namor to set up him joining. his role in the incursions, they had to clear the air; first. Zarda is the strongest character; story-wise.

[Michael Watkins]

Though I don't feel the premise of the team ever really got off the ground, in a way I do consider this a satisfying finish to the book.

They alll managed to let go of their issues and find a place for themselves on their new earth. And they all seemed satisfied. Ideally it would be nice if a few of these lose threads would be picked up elsewhere (apart from Nighthawl, who we know already found his life boat), but if this is the last we see of any of them they at least all got relatively happy endings.

must have forgotten about Zarda.

[Agent of Wolfram & Hart]

What a disappointing end to a disappointing series about a team I had high hopes for, I hop the Earth-712 Squadron is still out there and we can get more stories with them

[CentralPower]

Well, a "disappointing end to a disappointing series" is nice for being consistent, right?

The Gruenwald (712) Squadron was wiped out. Zarda is the only survivor.



I want to miss this series more than I am going to. The only reason I kept reading was a sentimental love of the Squadron that is more and more past tense at this point. (The "Hyperion" series was good. But, it is over and done. "Secret Wars" was almost two years ago, making the Hickman and Ewing comics close to three years old. Gruenwald's series was over 30 years ago.)

The next Squadron-related thing that I plan to read is the first volume "Paradise-X" (which I started last week). The question now is if I am going to like the Squadron at all by the end of next week.

Though I don't feel the premise of the team ever really got off the ground, in a way I do consider this a satisfying finish to the book.

I wonder if Robinson made the last issue up on the spot (as a hasty ending), or cobbled it together from notes and outlines for the series he planned to write over the course of a few years.

just one long love letter to Jim Hammond and condemnation of the Squadron. i won't be purchasing any more James Robinson works.

Hammond was a main character in the last arc. And, there are plenty of good reasons to rebrand Hammond as "the Human Reactor".

You say that like it's a bad thing, which it most certainly isn't.

Yeah, the Squadron was not supposed to come out of this clean. (They are always supposed to be flawed heroes.) If the Squadron does not end up in a morally greyish (or darker) place, then there might not be any point to using them.

Restated: The Squadron Supreme is not supposed to be admirable. They are supposed to be flawed heroes.

maybe he should have said that so I wouldn't invest my money in the book.

https://news.marvel.com/comics/24769..._for_survival/

Those Robinson quotes kind of prove that the Squadron was not supposed to be the most awesome good guys ever.

(And, the Squadron's moral failing were not a problem for this series.)

At least hyperion pointed out the flaw of this book

They didn't do anything

Whatan interestong premise that was basically abandoned after one arc

The series definitely lacked focus.

The first arc was good "get the team together" set-up. But, if Robinson had a plan beyond that, it was not apparent. The two or three issues with Spectrum added baggage, and no apparent value. (I wonder if Spectrum will survive the next event, or if the writers will simply forget her entirely.)

The focus on Zarda (both counterparts) was interesting. But, it was not addressed. Neither Zarda has been seen for 2 or 3 issues, and Robinson seems to have forgotten about them here. (And, I doubt Marvel is going to use them. Just assume they slipped on banana peels, near stairs, tumbled down and landed in swimming pools filled with toasters.)

By ending, is this end of an arc, or the book cancelled?

The end of the series. The team breaks up.

Blur: Surrenders to SHIELD, and enjoys a degree of clemency. If I were to guess, I would assume he is the most likely to return, likely in a SHIELD related book.

Doctor Spectrum: Goes off to live with the Inhumans. (Presumably, they will give her asylum from SHIELD.)

Hyperion: Back to driving a truck. (Not sure how Marc Milton keeps finding work as a trucker, considering how he lost at least one truck and cannot possibly be making regular drives.) In theory, he is a fugitive. But, I doubt that Marvel has any near term plans for Hyperion. ("Hyperion" clearly took place before "Civil War II", so I am assuming this is a return to Milton driving a truck, rather than leading in to that.)

Nighthawk: Heads off to star in the (recently cancelled) "Nighthawk" series, and has since shown up in "Occupy Avengers".

Thundra: Back to Weirdworld. (Thundra going back to Weirdworld also supports the idea that the "Hyperion" series was set well before the end of "Squadron Supreme".)

Zarda(s): The heroic (Gruenwald) Zarda was last seen during the fight with SHIELD. Her ultimate disposition is never established. The evil (Guggenheim) Zarda was last seen just before the fight with SHIELD. Her disposition is similarly vague. (There is also nothing definitive about the country she took over or the aliens she was working with.)

I hope to see more Hyperion in the future, either in space where he can really let go or continuing his broship with Thor.

Most, if not all, of the bromance between Hyperion and Thor was during Hickman's run on "the Avengers". And, most of that got fuzzed out by the end of "Secret Wars". (This is why Thor is still unworthy, despite redeeming himself during "Time Runs Out". The battle where he earned redemption never happened.) Some of it may carry over. But, will Marvel bother to reference it?

It would have been cool if Ewing had used the Squadron Supreme, instead of the New Universe group of Troubleshooters, in the Ultimates.

On a completely unrelated note, I want a pony and a million dollars.

(Joking aside, I have been wanting a Ewing written Squadron series for a while.)

So I only read bits of this series here or there (for Namor) and maybe someone would be willing to fill in some holes? I'm a little confused about how Namor was brought back to life, his 'deal' with Hyperion (and why Hyperion wanted to give him a deal in the first place), etc. Anyone willing to explain?

Magic. No, really. Magic....and time travel.

Hyperion was conflicted about his role in Namor's death. The deal was that Namor would help Hyperion and Spectrum save the captured members of the team from a SHIELD prison. Hyperion is shown helping to rebuild Atlantis (which he helped to destroy in the first issue).

I find it hilarious that after losing her world, Doctor Spectrum finally finds sanction in New Attilan. Then, the X-Men ransack and destroy it. An honestly comical setup. Also, Blur is about to become an agent of SHIELD right before Maria Hill gets fired and Rogers essentially drives the organization into the ground.

Wuhhhht?

So, I was right about Spectrum probably not surviving "the next event"? Day-um.

I really want to see Robinson use Blur again. Hyperion is my favorite member of the team because of "legacy" (the character's history under Hickman or Ewing). But, Robinson used Blur well enough, both stylistically and to accent what should have been more central themes to the series. (Blur was an "innocent eye" character and illustrated the idea that the characters were all from different places.)

and did they all forget about Warrior Woman's defection and designs on taking over the planet?

Everybody seemed to forget Zarda. (They forgot two Zardas, from two different timelines. Gotta admit, that is pretty impressive.)

I'm glad that you have forgiven Hyperion for killing Namor and Spectrum kicking his head like a football.

Namor got past it. I think we all can as well.

And then they got stomped by the UA

then stomped by Adam

then stomped by SHIELD

The team never got "stomped" by Adam. They ran away before he could stomp them. And, SHIELD did not just stomp them. SHIELD tied them up and made fun of them.

Tell it right.

i'm not even sure what that means. anyone with a power prism is, at least, B-list. Blur outmaneuvered Quicksilver. Nighthawk just embarrassed Hawkeye in Avengers Occupy. and was Hyperion C-List when he was an Avenger? people are just projecting their personal bias onto it.

It is not about who could beat up who. It is about which character is recognizable.

The Ultimates are supposed to be all about "teh powerz". The only a-list on the team is Black Panther. 2+ years ago, before showing up in a movie, Panther was a C-lister. Chavez, on the other hand, one of the more powerful members of the team is, at best, a d-lister.

The Squadron are most recognizable as disposable bad guys from that stupid "Avengers" cartoon, where they are fundamentally unrecognizable compared to the characters that show up in most any Squadron comic.

Consider the merchandise.

Most of the team has been made as Hero Clix. The Avengers at least match this.

Hyperion has had the most merchandise exposure, with 5 action figures, if one squints and counts a Lego figure. (Thundra, Nighthawk and Speed Demon tie for a distant second, with one figure each.)

A "c-lister" like Hawkeye? Hawkeye would not even need the (multiple) Lego figures to match Hyperion's numbers.

[ian0delond]

It's the Squadron Supreme it has never been more than C list.
That's the point of the team.

[Michael Watkins]

It's the Squadron Supreme it has never been more than C list.
That's the point of the team.

if that were the point of the team, they wouldn't have been given a title.

[Agent of Wolfram & Hart]

Well, a "disappointing end to a disappointing series" is nice for being consistent, right?

The Gruenwald (712) Squadron was wiped out. Zarda is the only survivor.

Yeah I know they said this in the book, but I hope Zarda & this book were mistaken & the real Squadron is still out there, if not Earth-712, a new alternate close to it

[Michael Watkins]

Well, a "disappointing end to a disappointing series" is nice for being consistent, right?

I see no upside to it.

I wonder if Robinson made the last issue up on the spot (as a hasty ending), or cobbled it together from notes and outlines for the series he planned to write over the course of a few years.

for his sake, I hope it was on the spot.

Hammond was a main character in the last arc. And, there are plenty of good reasons to rebrand Hammond as "the Human Reactor".

if he isn't a member of the Squadron, he shouldn't have been the main character of any arc. that's my point. Robinson did not sell this as a evolution-of-Jim-Hammond book. this shouldn't have been his vehicle to continue his Invaders stories. it's a cheat.

Yeah, the Squadron was not supposed to come out of this clean. (They are always supposed to be flawed heroes.)

so are the Thunderbolts. but the Thunderbolts win. know how to write yourself into a corner? make your characters unlikable and defenseless against likable characters. that might work for a mini-series or an event like Dark Reign (and I'd argue that it didn't). but, again, that's not the premise that he sold people on.

Those Robinson quotes kind of prove that the Squadron was not supposed to be the most awesome good guys ever.

what part of the quotes said that? he said that we wouldn't already agree with their actions. he didn't mention that their only accomplishment was going to be removing Namor's head.

(And, the Squadron's moral failing were not a problem for this series.)

of course not. i fully supported them killing Namor. he had it coming.

The first arc was good "get the team together" set-up. But, if Robinson had a plan beyond that, it was not apparent.

it sure seemed like had a plan. he set up the mystery of the alien army. he had Warrior Woman align with Mordred, take over the horde, and make a play for aligning with Namor. but, for some reason, Robinson pulled back from all of that; to focus on how awesome Jim Hammond is. he actually had Blur fawn over him.

The focus on Zarda (both counterparts) was interesting. But, it was not addressed. Neither Zarda has been seen for 2 or 3 issues, and Robinson seems to have forgotten about them here. (And, I doubt Marvel is going to use them. Just assume they slipped on banana peels, near stairs, tumbled down and landed in swimming pools filled with toasters.)

yes, it was a real mistake. because the solicits made it seem as if she were going to significantly influence the team. there was a story in that; the original (even sans special abilities) steering the Squadron in a separate direction. it would have been payoff for the sacrifice the original squadron made in saving her life.

(Joking aside, I have been wanting a Ewing written Squadron series for a while.)

i think they'd all be better off being written separately, at this point. since everytime one of these threads is made, some ******** calls them a team of C-Listers. maybe they have more potential as individuals.

Hyperion was conflicted about his role in Namor's death. The deal was that Namor would help Hyperion and Spectrum save the captured members of the team from a SHIELD prison. Hyperion is shown helping to rebuild Atlantis (which he helped to destroy in the first issue).

was Hyperion's guilt the impetus? i seem to remember something about a vision of Namor and Warrior Woman teaming up.

I really want to see Robinson use Blur again. Hyperion is my favorite member of the team because of "legacy" (the character's history under Hickman or Ewing). But, Robinson used Blur well enough, both stylistically and to accent what should have been more central themes to the series. (Blur was an "innocent eye" character and illustrated the idea that the characters were all from different places.)

Blur was directionless as the book, imo.

It is not about who could beat up who. It is about which character is recognizable.

who doesn't recognize Hyperion? does Marvel have another justice league pastiche team?

The Squadron are most recognizable as disposable bad guys from that stupid "Avengers" cartoon, where they are fundamentally unrecognizable compared to the characters that show up in most any Squadron comic.

i don't really see that as a detriment to the characters. half the time, you just need a good costume to draw people in.

A "c-lister" like Hawkeye? Hawkeye would not even need the (multiple) Lego figures to match Hyperion's numbers.

still got his rear kicked. not to mention that they've altered a lot about hawkeye because, i guess, he hadn't aged well; thematically. most of it was movie-related.

[JudicatorPrime]

It's the Squadron Supreme it has never been more than C list.
That's the point of the team.

They are an homage team of the JLA. It's difficult to see them as C or D listers, even if the analogs keep changing.