Squadron Supreme #15

[Michael Watkins]

I am not going to pretend that the Squadron characters are terribly significant to the comics industry or the fandom at large. (I will not even discuss the idea of the Squadron having any significant recognition or impact outside of the comics fandom.)

certainly, I wouldn't call it a discussion. but you have shown up in most of the Squadron-related threads to mention how unimportant and lame the characters are; citing your reading of the original series. I guess that the issue is my complete lack of interest in their impact or significance; to the wider fandom. I have an expectation of comics that I read. Robinson didn't meet that expectation. I don't think that he tried to tell a Squadron story. i think that there are better stories to be told; with the characters. that's just my opinion. I'm not even going to pretend that either of is dealing with objective truth. that would be pretentious.

Or, maybe Squadron could have minded their own damned business and let Panther handle that? (Of course, the point is that the Squadron are aggressive about getting involved, with morally grey results. That does not make them good guys.)

T'challa had his shot and blew it. and I'm not sure that's how revenge works. it was totally Spectrum's business. she should step aside because of Wakanda? doesn't compute.

A solo character can outlast an unpopular team. But, that did not happen here. The "Hyperion" series was largely apolitical, and it failed. "Nighthawk" was marketed as topical and political. It also failed. Two Squadron-related series failing in a year. If nothing else, the weak main series should have helped the solo series because Squadron fans (all 10 of them) would have flocked in larger numbers to the solo books to escape the malignant bungling of Robinson.

doesn't sound like logic to me. and it seems to ignore that there aren't many books thriving in today's market. neither mini had the marketing of, say, Captain Marvel (who, by the standards of this board, is struggling).

And, how many people are going to start off with googling "Hyperion vs battle"?

you miss the point. if you had googled, you'd see people already discussing the character.

Hawkeye still made it in to the movies.

because Edgar Wright had dibs on Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne

The Squadron made it in to a sub-par cartoon (along with Hawkeye) that is written down to 8-year olds.

this is a medium for children; hence the colorful spandex and black & white morality.

"Squadron Supreme", "Hyperion", "Nighthawk", "Red Wolf"..... (And, I am saying that as somebody who liked three of those series.)

but you don't see those as successful series. so i'll ask again. what's an example of it working like it should?

[CentralPower]

The way it works is that some series are not successful. "Hyperion", "Nighthawk" and "Red Wolf" were not successful. They failed. That is how it works.

Unpopular characters do not often get a push or break out. Deadpool and Squirrel Girl are exceptions, not standards.

I guess that the issue is my complete lack of interest in their impact or significance; to the wider fandom

The Squadron is not, nor have the characters ever been, A-listers. A-list means "recognizable beyond a small fan-base".

you miss the point. if you had googled, you'd see people already discussing the character.

And, those people are almost certainly pre-existing fans of the Squadron, which is a subset of comics fans. Nobody is googling that stuff unless they already know and care about the Squadron.

Meanwhile, people are googling A-list characters, like Iron Man or Captain America, even if they are not comics fans.

[Michael Watkins]

The way it works is that some series are not successful. "Hyperion", "Nighthawk" and "Red Wolf" were not successful. They failed. That is how it works.

Unpopular characters do not often get a push or break out. Deadpool and Squirrel Girl are exceptions, not standards.




The Squadron is not, nor have the characters ever been, A-listers. A-list means "recognizable beyond a small fan-base".

because wiktionary says so

[JudicatorPrime]

Honestly I think the fact that they're JLA rip offs make it easier to see tham as C listers.

They may not be A-listers by the "classic" definition, but the Squadron has been around in one form or another for decades. They've had their own series and one-shots. Versions of their characters have appeared in everything from the Defenders to the most current iterations of the Avengers. Perhaps not every member of the Squadron is a known quantity, but I think they're more widely known than we give them credit.

[CentralPower]

Not seeing it. Even in comic shops, I have met people who are barely familiar with the Squadron, if at all.

This does not make them defective characters. But, they are not major characters.

[Johnny Peril]

Okay, let's see if I got this straight; Namor gets his head back, Atlanteans (those that survived) get their city rebuilt (again), Hyperion becomes a hero (again), Blur finds a new team, Hammond loses a power but gains a new sidekick, S.H.I.E.L.D finally manages to capture someone (actually he gave himself up), the aliens have a queen, Zarda (the bad one) has an army, Zarda (the good one) gets a new outfit, Thundra goes back to her boyfriend Arkon, Dr. Spectrum (tired of slaughtering Atlanteans) develops a conscience all of a sudden and moves to New Attilan (do they accept non inhumans?), Modred is Zarda's (the bad one) mage, and Nighthawk does a complete 180°. Guess the only losers were Dr. Druid and Attuma (who had no business in the story). I was so hoping this would be like Supreme Power.

[Of Atlantis]

he said that he agreed with their mission state. they were acting as the Invaders or Illuminati might have. it's not about policing anyone. the police aren't vigilantes. so back to that context, allying with a team like the Squadron makes perfect sense for Namor. they act like he acts. and Hyperion helped Namor rebuild Atlantis. how's that not an alliance?

The difference is the Invaders are actually his friends and the Illuminati acted in his best interests. The SS mission statement doesn't really do anything for him or Atlantis. It's not like they're trying to save the environment or anything, so I don't understand why Robinson would insist Namor would care for it tbh.

[Michael Watkins]

The difference is the Invaders are actually his friends

really? didn't he beat Rogers unconscious? and didn't he leave Hammond for dead? beyond his on-again off-again romance with Doom, who in the Marvel Universe actually still likes Namor?

and the Illuminati acted in his best interests.

lol. do I need to post the panel of them attempting to kill him?

The SS mission statement doesn't really do anything for him or Atlantis. It's not like they're trying to save the environment or anything, so I don't understand why Robinson would insist Namor would care for it tbh.

here's a thought. maybe Namor would come to the team with his own agenda; like every other member.

[Michael Watkins]

Okay, let's see if I got this straight; Namor gets his head back, Atlanteans (those that survived) get their city rebuilt (again), Hyperion becomes a hero (again), Blur finds a new team, Hammond loses a power but gains a new sidekick, S.H.I.E.L.D finally manages to capture someone (actually he gave himself up), the aliens have a queen, Zarda (the bad one) has an army, Zarda (the good one) gets a new outfit, Thundra goes back to her boyfriend Arkon, Dr. Spectrum (tired of slaughtering Atlanteans) develops a conscience all of a sudden and moves to New Attilan (do they accept non inhumans?), Modred is Zarda's (the bad one) mage, and Nighthawk does a complete 180°. Guess the only losers were Dr. Druid and Attuma (who had no business in the story). I was so hoping this would be like Supreme Power.

i miss Supreme Power

[Of Atlantis]

really? didn't he beat Rogers unconscious? and didn't he leave Hammond for dead? beyond his on-again off-again romance with Doom, who in the Marvel Universe actually still likes Namor?

Seemed on pretty good terms in their last title, all things considered.

lol. do I need to post the panel of them attempting to kill him?

Can't do much about betrayal. His best interests and thus his membership both ceased at that point.

here's a thought. maybe Namor would come to the team with his own agenda; like every other member.

Or he wouldn't care to. Either way, you'd need the book to be good enough to last longer than it did to confirm that, sorry to say.

[Montressor]

Two questions:

Wasn't there a corpse left in Namor's death? I seem to recall him being beheaded...how did Robinson explain time travel fixing that?

And what, specifically, is different about Jim Hammond now? Does he have blue flame now, or something?

[CentralPower]

Hammond glows red and emits radiation.

Wasn't there a corpse left in Namor's death? I seem to recall him being beheaded...how did Robinson explain time travel fixing that?

Magic. (No. Really. That is the answer.)

[Mr MajestiK]

Honestly I think the fact that they're JLA rip offs make it easier to see tham as C listers.

In your eyes maybe.

[CentralPower]

How are they possibly a-listers?

The one attempt to launch ongoing Squadron-series (last year) ended in comprehensive failure, both creatively and in terms of sales. The characters are recognized by small numbers of comics fans. And, with DC publishing comics like 'Red Son" or "Master Men", there is arguably no need for a Squadron. (I liked the characters, and see potential. But, there is less need for Marvel to do it because DC can deliver that potential in-house now.)

[neohuey89]

How are they possibly a-listers?

The one attempt to launch ongoing Squadron-series (last year) ended in comprehensive failure, both creatively and in terms of sales. The characters are recognized by small numbers of comics fans. And, with DC publishing comics like 'Red Son" or "Master Men", there is arguably no need for a Squadron. (I liked the characters, and see potential. But, there is less need for Marvel to do it because DC can deliver that potential in-house now.)

I'm a fan of the Squadron Supreme, but in my opinion the only way they could truly stand on their own is to do things you couldn't/wouldn't do with the JLA or the Avengers. I think J.M.S had the right idea with Supreme Power especially with Nighthawk. With the conclusion of Secret Wars Robinson had the chance to use continuity and create real deal anti-heroes, but I feel like he backed out in the middle of the book. When I saw the pitch I was expecting something similar to The Authority, but instead I feel like we got a half assed Avengers team.

I don't say that to be rude or bash the writer, but if they're going to be good guys, I don't see the masses identifying them as anything other than bootleg Justice League.