Superior Spider-Man: Was it Rape?

[Michael Watkins]

I'd rather he remain a villain. he's one of the decent ones. but it wasn't rape.

[Shriveling_memo]

Well... he's murdered a lot of people. Also didn't he just try to destroy the entire world? I think if that's not 'irredemable' by nature... it should at least be 'prison without parole' kind of thing. Anything that involves his criminal activities getting swept under the rug to have him walking the streets would be annoying storytelling at best.

Did heroes straight up murder alternate planets for the supposed greater good?

It just depends how long the writers can maintain the status quo.

I actually think villains needs to go in a new direction for comics. Petty, proper low level criminals go prison, but people like Osborn, ock, the big villians, the government should intervene an make them work on a project, or they just can't go prison because there to big to go.

Being basic criminals devalue these characters who should in someway be trading the same lines as the heroes do now days

[Vixx]

Well... he's murdered a lot of people. Also didn't he just try to destroy the entire world? I think if that's not 'irredemable' by nature... it should at least be 'prison without parole' kind of thing. Anything that involves his criminal activities getting swept under the rug to have him walking the streets would be annoying storytelling at best.

Did he kill anyone notable?

Not trying to downplay it, but couldn't think of anyone .. (Besides captain Stacy)

Comics are odd - as long as they are red shirts you can slaughter the wholesale and gain redemption pretty fast

[phantom1592]

Did he kill anyone notable?

Not trying to downplay it, but couldn't think of anyone .. (Besides captain Stacy)

Comics are odd - as long as they are red shirts you can slaughter the wholesale and gain redemption pretty fast

Yeah, that bugs me a lot about comics. 1st of all I hate losing a good villain for a mediocre anti-hero. 2nd they always just ignore all the bad things they did or find a way to wipe the slate clean. With Ock, they'll probably go the movie route and claim that the arms made him crazy or some stupid thing.

Venom was another one that got his own series after murdering people that got in his way to murder Spider-man... but as long as he promises not to do it anymore... then all's okay. Despite the convictions that should still be standing for murder... AND escaping prison a dozen times... Boggles the brain.

[Agent Z]

Did he kill anyone notable?

Not trying to downplay it, but couldn't think of anyone .. (Besides captain Stacy)

Comics are odd - as long as they are red shirts you can slaughter the wholesale and gain redemption pretty fast

Why does that matter?

[Shriveling_memo]

Yeah, that bugs me a lot about comics. 1st of all I hate losing a good villain for a mediocre anti-hero. 2nd they always just ignore all the bad things they did or find a way to wipe the slate clean. With Ock, they'll probably go the movie route and claim that the arms made him crazy or some stupid thing.

Venom was another one that got his own series after murdering people that got in his way to murder Spider-man... but as long as he promises not to do it anymore... then all's okay. Despite the convictions that should still be standing for murder... AND escaping prison a dozen times... Boggles the brain.

Again how comes wolverine, Scarlett witch are redeemable. Scarlett witch to me is a villain being shoved as ahero who did nothing to redeem herself.

Wolverine is a killer, that's his thing. Captain America, Hulk winter solider, black widow and gambit all cross the lines of being villains. Many more

[Vixx]

Again how comes wolverine, Scarlett witch are redeemable. Scarlett witch to me is a villain being shoved as ahero who did nothing to redeem herself.

Wolverine is a killer, that's his thing. Captain America, Hulk winter solider, black widow and gambit all cross the lines of being villains. Many more

I never understood that either

But figure normal people are living in a world with catacylmisic events, buildings getting toppled, super Heros, aliens, etc as totally normal events may have different judgement criteria.

Picture walking next to someone, having a conversation only to have them crushed under a pile of bricks mid sentence... So, of coarse, you shrug and keep walking

It's like you are allowed to go buck wild , but only if you are cool (or have cool powers) and don't hurt/maim/crush/kill anyone we like.

So.. Basically high school in spandex

[Pako]

Is this like an allusion to Otto getting away with the stuff he does in SSM only because he was in an attractive man's body ?

Even Anna had a measure of revulsion once he was seen in the form of ol' tubby.

[Vegeta]

I didn't stick with the Eddie Brock Venom mini series (preferring Venom as a villain) for long but it was my understanding that the character remained an outlaw criminal through out the series and was NEVER actually embraced by the superhero community. (At best he formed a few uneasy alliances throughout the run, usually with other anti heroes such as the Punisher and Ghost Rider.)

Characters with "soldier" backgrounds such as Captain America, Punisher and Wolverine are generally allowed to kill opponents without repercussions. I guess in the Marvel Universe once you get Uncle Sam's blessing to fight and kill on the battlefield it's generally A-OK for any superhero career going forward. (Well, technically the Punisher is still a wanted criminal.)

[WebLurker]

Characters with "soldier" backgrounds such as Captain America, Punisher and Wolverine are generally allowed to kill opponents without repercussions. I guess in the Marvel Universe once you get Uncle Sam's blessing to fight and kill on the battlefield it's generally A-OK for any superhero career going forward. (Well, technically the Punisher is still a wanted criminal.)

I'd say it depends on the circumstances to some extent. A death in the middle of battle is different than murdering a surrendered prisoner. I'd also argue that it depends if the character in question has the legal right to use lethal force, like Captain America did during his service in the army.

The Punisher is a villain protagonist. The guy's a serial killer and proud of it.

[phantom1592]

Again how comes wolverine, Scarlett witch are redeemable. Scarlett witch to me is a villain being shoved as ahero who did nothing to redeem herself.

Wolverine is a killer, that's his thing. Captain America, Hulk winter solider, black widow and gambit all cross the lines of being villains. Many more

Writers cater to the readers... it really doesn't make sense. Wolverine was always one of the worst characters ever written. His best days were as a barely functioning psychopath that were on the team just so Prof. X and Cyclops could keep an eye on him. They had a VERY specific 'Don't let Wolverine Kill' policy in effect that later writers just ditched to make wolverine seem 'cool'.

Captain America? He spent decades as a strict NO KILL character. Even in the flashbacks to the war he was punching his Nazis out and not shooting them dead. (no idea about the original golden age books, but those were pretty retconned after the comic codes) He broke up the avengers because they wanted to vote on killing... Now?? He's best buddies with Logan and had Deadpool on the avengers... Regardless of what his character would do, they had to get all the 'fan favorites' on the teams somehow... >.<


At their basis though... I think the redeemability comes in with the 'why' of the murders. A lot of these characters caused death 'as a last resort' or 'self defense'.... or some such lame justification. Doc Ock and Venom??? It was usually because someone made fun of them or were just in their way and didn't matter.

I hate seeing that kind of crap swept under the rug.


Scarlet Witch? I've always hated that character... but at the very least she has that whole insanity thing going on. She didn't wipe out scores of friends and mutants in her clear mind. She was seriously messed up.

[Shriveling_memo]

Aren't all villains insane? So why is she redeemable? Venom Eddie brook wasn't a villian until corrupted. Anyway can this topic shut down an we start a better one. As the focus has gone from what it was to something else. An I really don't think anything was proved in this topic as I don't think ock and this chick slept together