Amazing Spider-Man #23 Commentary

[Probalus]

Just realized that this is probably the most character and depth a 616 Gwen (or Gwen clone) has ever been written...

[theoneandonly]

this was a mostly skippable issue written mainly as a love letter to Gwen.

[DieHard200904]

Just realized that this is probably the most character and depth a 616 Gwen (or Gwen clone) has ever been written...

Probably because they are making a statement.

[John Ossie]

I thought the issue was...''Okay''...Nothing much more than that to be honest. Give it a 6 out of 10 overall I'd say. Wasn't crap or anything...Just...''Okay''.

[Frontier]

Just realized that this is probably the most character and depth a 616 Gwen (or Gwen clone) has ever been written...

Not that that's saying much, all things considered .

[John Ossie]

Not that that's saying much, all things considered .

Especially given that the only other time I can think of as to where her character had some depth was when she died or her dad died. Can't think of any other occasions LOL.

[suemorphplus209]

Probably because they are making a statement.

Of course they are making a statement! Why else do you think they would commit an issue to a character?!!! I get the bizarre feeling Slott brought her in for the "Love Triangle" he was talking about.

[LOSTie-chan]

Kind of disappointed that this issue didn't really advance the plot from Clone Conspiracy #4. It's pretty much a filler issue, honestly.

((That being said I do like how things are ramping up. And I usually hate it when new books spoil the ending for an event but knowing that there's going to be a Scarlet Spider series, I'm much more invested in this event now. Mainly cuz I wanna see how the events of Clone Conspiracy and ASM lead into Scarlet Spider. ))

[John Ossie]

I think that's why my attitude to this issue is ''Meh'' to be honest. It was okay, wasn't awful, but at the same time it did feel like a filler. Clone Conspiracy 4 was better.

[boots]

i really liked this issue, probably more than cc #4, but then, i'm a sucker for character stories over plot any day. really nice moments with gwen and peter exploring their relationship, what it means to be a clone vs "human" and peter's own relationship with his emotions/spider-man.

1. remember the debate about whether or not gwen died hating peter in that back up story early on in the saga? turns out she didn't die with hate in her heart after all.
2. gwen asking "how many bridges"- get that it was figurative but it also works in a literal sense. it feels to me that peter/ben have relived saving people from bridges a lot over the years.
3. kaine has peter's memories now? is this new or a continuity fluff? because that really plays havoc with the character of kaine and his actions.

[Aruran.]

I agree that with boots with liking ASM 23 was more than CC 4.

The biggest point I liked from Peter and Gwen's convo was Gwen seeing Spider-Man as Peter's form of punishment for himself.

And I think Kaine always had the early portions of Peter's memories. Like that was canon, and Kaine ignored them for personal reasons.

[boots]

And I think Kaine always had the early portions of Peter's memories. Like that was canon, and Kaine ignored them for personal reasons.

just so happens that i'm visiting my parents today, so i pulled out some spider-man redemption #2 and #4. quoting from kaine's inner and outer monologues:

"Can you imagine what it's like being born a grown man--with no clear memories just vague intimations of a past never lived?"

"In some small part of me--I could feel what you felt. Like a distant echo. And somewhere in the darkness of my soul, I loved the people you loved. Loved this precious place. But those feelings...so vague, so unfathomable...didn't nurture me as they did you--"

[Von]

This was my favorite issue of ASM in a long time. It might even be my favorite Slott issue ever.

That probably comes because I go way back with Gwen and Peter - I actually had a copy of ASM 121 and 122 Vol 1 when I was a kid. It really affected me personally.
At that age the characters feel like real people and everything is so much more dramatic ..

At the beginning of this arc I was annoyed that .. finally this was Gwen 616 'back to life' * And I felt she being written unlike the original Gwen in any way. Her lines,
her reactions, her personality as a whole: they were either too much like Gwen 65, they were unrecognizable or they were simply generic.

But this led me to reflect on how much Gwen was ever developed at all. In fact - until one panel in CC #4 and this issue, I almost came on here and posted a thread
"Did Gwen Stacy Ever Have an Actual Personality?" I reflected on this for a bit - I recalled all of those old issues .. and then it hit me:

She *did* have a personality. Gwen was a sweet girl. She cared about people. She was compassionate and feminine. She was the perfect damsel in distress.
She was a partygirl with MJ, sure, but you always knew that MJ was the leader in that dynamic: MJ was the instigator. Gwen was her sweet friend that picked
up on that energy and followed it.

Granted this wasn't the deepest characterization nor the most original. But it *was* Gwen. It contrasted pretty strongly against Gwen 65.

The beginning of this arc completely missed all of that for me.

.. and then I read the panel in Clone Conspiracy #4 where Gwen said "I forgive you" (love that Chueng art!), I paused and stared at it and I felt
this little wave of feels and a tear came to the corner of my eye.

*That* was Gwen. Telling Peter that what he obsessed for years (how many issues did we hear the voice in his head agonize over this?! How many years IRL?)
was for naught. That she never hated him and forgives him for all of the BS he put her through. Including being ultimately connected and in some very real
ways responsible for her death, no matter how hard he tried to protect her and save her from it.

*That* was the Gwen I remember. That one panel was the most powerful Spider-Man panel for me in a long time.

And then this issue just expanded on that for me. It really was a gift. Those conversations continued a storyline from decades ago in a way that really made
me feel like the author "got" the essence of the girl the way she was originally written, understood the relationship they had at the time, and what they
might say to each other after all this time (well, for Peter anyway) given the circumstances.

Thanks Dan. Because with this issue you resurrected my childhood from the dead.

* Because - regardless of what one might ultimately think of this current cloning method and its ramifications about authenticity - the nature
of the process *does* bring back all of the memories, thoughts, and emotions of the original body

PS: The irony that this issue is ASM #023 is not lost on me either.

PSS: And I am surprised that no-one has noted Camuncoli's character art in this issue - particularly with Gwen - as it is the expressions on her face
and her body language that make the other 50% toward how the original Gwen's personality bloomed in this issue.

PSSS: And I LOVE how they both crack up rofling at the idea of Gwen on drums! A classic set of panels. I loled too.

[suemorphplus209]

This was my favorite issue of ASM in a long time. It might even be my favorite Slott issue ever.

That probably comes because I go way back with Gwen and Peter - I actually had a copy of ASM 121 and 122 Vol 1 when I was a kid. It really affected me personally.
At that age the characters feel like real people and everything is so much more dramatic ..

At the beginning of this arc I was annoyed that .. finally this was Gwen 616 'back to life' * And I felt she being written unlike the original Gwen in any way. Her lines,
her reactions, her personality as a whole: they were either too much like Gwen 65, they were unrecognizable or they were simply generic.

But this led me to reflect on how much Gwen was ever developed at all. In fact - until one panel in CC #4 and this issue, I almost came on here and posted a thread
"Did Gwen Stacy Ever Have an Actual Personality?" I reflected on this for a bit - I recalled all of those old issues .. and then it hit me:

She *did* have a personality. Gwen was a sweet girl. She cared about people. She was compassionate and feminine. She was the perfect damsel in distress.
She was a partygirl with MJ, sure, but you always knew that MJ was the leader in that dynamic: MJ was the instigator. Gwen was her sweet friend that picked
up on that energy and followed it.

Granted this wasn't the deepest characterization nor the most original. But it *was* Gwen. It contrasted pretty strongly against Gwen 65.

The beginning of this arc completely missed all of that for me.

.. and then I read the panel in Clone Conspiracy #4 where Gwen said "I forgive you" (love that Chueng art!), I paused and stared at it and I felt
this little wave of feels and a tear came to the corner of my eye.

*That* was Gwen. Telling Peter that what he obsessed for years (how many issues did we hear the voice in his head agonize over this?! How many years IRL?)
was for naught. That she never hated him and forgives him for all of the BS he put her through. Including being ultimately connected and in some very real
ways responsible for her death, no matter how hard he tried to protect her and save her from it.

*That* was the Gwen I remember. That one panel was the most powerful Spider-Man panel for me in a long time.

And then this issue just expanded on that for me. It really was a gift. Those conversations continued a storyline from decades ago in a way that really made
me feel like the author "got" the essence of the girl the way she was originally written, understood the relationship they had at the time, and what they
might say to each other after all this time (well, for Peter anyway) given the circumstances.

Thanks Dan. Because with this issue you resurrected my childhood from the dead.

* Because - regardless of what one might ultimately think of this current cloning method and its ramifications about authenticity - the nature
of the process *does* bring back all of the memories, thoughts, and emotions of the original body

PS: The irony that this issue is ASM #023 is not lost on me either.

PSS: And I am surprised that no-one has noted Camuncoli's character art in this issue - particularly with Gwen - as it is the expressions on her face
and her body language that make the other 50% toward how the original Gwen's personality bloomed in this issue.

PSSS: And I LOVE how they both crack up rofling at the idea of Gwen on drums! A classic set of panels. I loled too.

Maybe they can say that this Gwen plays piano or harmonica?

[stillanerd]

Well, in case you folks were wondering what my full thoughts on Amazing Spider-Man #23, or the "Peter, we need to talk...and talk... and TALK" issue, here it is finally:

Stillaned Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man (2015) #23

I will say, I did think this issue was somewhat better than Clone Conspiracy #4, in part because in was more focused on character, and that it didn't try and sweep the whole "is cloning the same as bringing a person back from the dead" debate under the rug. Though it's also telling what Peter and Gwen don't talk about, and I don't think Camuncoli was exactly the right artist given the story of this comic.