What went wrong with Marvel's push of Carol?

[XPac]

I dunno. A lot of people really disliked Iron Man post-Civil War.

I think the movie did more for rehabilitating his image and popularity.

A lot of people did dislike Iron Man post Civil War... and you knew that by the fact that he appeared in practically every dam book in the line for the next year. He was the most exposed, the most talked about, and arguable the most important character in the MU. And when you consider where the character was prior to Civil War, that's actually kind of a big deal.

To this day Steve and Iron Man are arguably the 2 most important characters in the MU ... not JUST the avengers, but the whole freaking MU. And Civil War was a big part of that.

But my point being I think they wanted to use a similar tactic to try and raise Carols profile. But Civil War 2 just didn't matter enough to make Carol matter more. It couldn't do to her what the original did for Steve and TOny.

[Frontier]

A lot of people did dislike Iron Man post Civil War... and you knew that by the fact that he appeared in practically every dam book in the line for the next year. He was the most exposed, the most talked about, and arguable the most important character in the MU. And when you consider where the character was prior to Civil War, that's actually kind of a big deal.

To this day Steve and Iron Man are arguably the 2 most important characters in the MU ... not JUST the avengers, but the whole freaking MU. And Civil War was a big part of that.

But my point being I think they wanted to use a similar tactic to try and raise Carols profile. But Civil War 2 just didn't matter enough to make Carol matter more. It couldn't do to her what the original did for Steve and TOny.

I still don't think that was a positive thing .

[MichaelC]

I dunno. A lot of people really disliked Iron Man post-Civil War.

I think the movie did more for rehabilitating his image and popularity.

Yeah, Iron Man would have ended up with Cyclops in near oblivion if not for the movies. Civil War didn't help him. Civil War nearly destroyed him.

[Killerbee911]

I think that has still yet to be realized with Carol yet.

I think Kelly Thompson will do good work but the inconsistent creative teams and Carol's use in past events isn't what I would cite in her favor in the comics at the moment.

Yeah I was saying now that she is nearly a billion golden child, that process will begin the company has a reason beyond something superficial to keep her important.

As for Events, Civil War 2 wasn't as bad thing as fans like to think It raised her profile as leader even with the downside plus the Kim Kardashian rule there is nothing such as bad publicity, being out the public eye is even being "hated" is better than not being seen at all and that is true to some level. And it is not like Iron Man(Civil War) or Cap(Secret Empire) walk away from events squeaky clean. I was more talking along the lines that Captain Marvel gets a major role in events now,Secret Empire she got focus defending the world( and being trapped outside) War of Realms She is leading a strike team and she is on Big Avengers team so she is getting focus. Characters can't take the step to next level if you don't even get invited to party.

Think about like this Marvel created Illuminati which was bunch of heavy hitters and important characters. There was no female character on the Illuminati back then and there was no female who felt she was lock to make it. If they were to do that concept today doesn't Carol fit the profile of power player who would be invited to table? That is what some people missed about the push it might not have her big time sales machine but it did make her a character who is power player in stories.

[Snoop Dogg]

Civil War made Iron Man the most interesting character in the Marvel Universe and defined him as the Bruce to Steve's Clark. The reason that Iron Man is in a much better position than Cyclops is because when Cyclops became more interesting and important to the MU, someone made the awful call to kill him off, while wiser people kept Iron Man around and under the microscope for a big mega-arc.

Civil War II could not reproduce the same effect for Carol because she didn't do much and it hyped up decisions she would normally make anyway, but it probably was the first story to raise her to a top MU player even if that was going to naturally happen anyway.

[Frontier]

As for Events, Civil War 2 wasn't as bad thing as fans like to think It raised her profile as leader even with the downside plus the Kim Kardashian rule there is nothing such as bad publicity, being out the public eye is even being "hated" is better than not being seen at all and that is true to some level.

I can't say she had many good "leader" feats, at least in the main event.

And it is not like Iron Man(Civil War) or Cap(Secret Empire) walk away from events squeaky clean. I was more talking along the lines that Captain Marvel gets a major role in events now,Secret Empire she got focus defending the world( and being trapped outside) War of Realms She is leading a strike team and she is on Big Avengers team so she is getting focus. Characters can't take the step to next level if you don't even get invited to party.

The real Cap at least got a big hero moment to redeem himself at the end of Secret Empire.

Think about like this Marvel created Illuminati which was bunch of heavy hitters and important characters. There was no female character on the Illuminati back then and there was no female who felt she was lock to make it. If they were to do that concept today doesn't Carol fit the profile of power player who would be invited to table? That is what some people missed about the push it might not have her big time sales machine but it did make her a character who is power player in stories.

Emma Frost seems like a better fit for an Illuminati then Carol. She's too headstrong and wears her heart on her sleeve enough to be part of an Illuminati team.

Civil War made Iron Man the most interesting character in the Marvel Universe and defined him as the Bruce to Steve's Clark. The reason that Iron Man is in a much better position than Cyclops is because when Cyclops became more interesting and important to the MU, someone made the awful call to kill him off, while wiser people kept Iron Man around and under the microscope for a big mega-arc.

They seemed to keep him around so they could inevitably do a mind-wipe back to before he made his decisions about Civil War and so he could benefit from a movie (not that I think they were ever going to do away with Iron Man movie or not, mind you).

Civil War II could not reproduce the same effect for Carol because she didn't do much and it hyped up decisions she would normally make anyway, but it probably was the first story to raise her to a top MU player even if that was going to naturally happen anyway.

I think "portrayed as a top MU Player" is more accurate then "raise." There wasn't much raising in that story going on.

[Wiccan]

The color scheme is not even the most ORIGINAL of the McKelvie costume...

...which goes to show how KARA DANVERS it is to me.

Lol. Kara is NOT the first hero to wear those colors. And since when is necessary for a costume to have an original color scheme? I'm pretty sure any possible one has already been done on at least one character anyway.

[Killerbee911]

I can't say she had many good "leader" feats, at least in the main event.

The real Cap at least got a big hero moment to redeem himself at the end of Secret Empire.

You can't get those feats without being at the party,She is being invited to the party now.

Civil War 2 wasn't overall good event, The final outcome clearly made Carol look wrong. The point of event like Civil War is that you walk away from thinking both sides had a valid point. So I don't disagree that she looked bad after Civil War 2 but on the other hand Carol headed major event as a leader and people where not going why wasn't Captain America or Black Panther in charge.

Emma Frost seems like a better fit for an Illuminati then Carol. She's too headstrong and wears her heart on her sleeve enough to be part of an Illuminati team.

That is fair to say but you can say the same thing about Captain America and you saw what they did to him. The point is they invited the power players and Captain Marvel fits more than any other female character at Marvel now

[Frontier]

You can't get those feats without being at the party,She is being invited to the party now.

True, writers just need to being the work of really establishing those feats without the stigma of bad Civil War writing.

That is fair to say but you can say the same thing about Captain America and you saw what they did to him. The point is they invited the power players and Captain Marvel fits more than any other female character at Marvel now

Well, yeah, they mind-wiped and kicked Steve out. I don't think that's a point in Carol's favor.

[XPac]

Civil War made Iron Man the most interesting character in the Marvel Universe and defined him as the Bruce to Steve's Clark. The reason that Iron Man is in a much better position than Cyclops is because when Cyclops became more interesting and important to the MU, someone made the awful call to kill him off, while wiser people kept Iron Man around and under the microscope for a big mega-arc.

Civil War II could not reproduce the same effect for Carol because she didn't do much and it hyped up decisions she would normally make anyway, but it probably was the first story to raise her to a top MU player even if that was going to naturally happen anyway.

Unlike with Iron Man, I don't think the X-writers necessary had any sort of long term plan over what do do with Cyclops.

They knew they had this narrative where he was generating a lot of heat both with a lot of the characters and a portion of the readership, but I don't think they knew what to do with it. It eventually came to the point where I think they were just writing the X-Men mad at him for the sake of writing them as mad at him. So I think killing him off just gave them a sort of reboot, becuase they frankly didn't know what to do with him. Whether you like Starks handling or not, I think in the least there was a defined end game.

In Carols case, I don't think Civil War 2 had enough interest to generate the desired effect that Stark and Scott got. The event ended and they all largely just moved on like it didn't happen. Even Carol nearly killing Stark barely seemed to matter.

[MichaelC]

Even Carol nearly killing Stark barely seemed to matter.

Well with Stark you have an easy out in that he is both a mad scientist type and a plans-within-plan-within-plans type. So having him almost immediately Frankenstein both himself and Rhodey back to life felt pretty natural. Her doing that to most characters would have had uglier and longer consequences.

[Photon Torme]

I think I may have heard something about a movie that she's in.

[Kurolegacy]

Well with Stark you have an easy out in that he is both a mad scientist type and a plans-within-plan-within-plans type. So having him almost immediately Frankenstein both himself and Rhodey back to life felt pretty natural. Her doing that to most characters would have had uglier and longer consequences.

Maybe but then there is the elephant in the room; Tony only survived that by luck as to what he had done to his body over the years. Neither knew about this and had it not been for that, Tony would be dead. Carol was going for the kill against a close friend.

[Hulkout42]

I thought she was doing ok...until she beat the crap out of Julia Carpenter while her daughter watched it happen back in CW1. Then fast forward to CW2 and whatever hope she had to truly earning the name Captain Marvel went down the tank. As for her movie? Watched it and deeply regretted it tbh.

[Shaggy]

I think I may have heard something about a movie that she's in.

Yeah, all these Carol hate threads appear super silly now.