What's the problem with the Dark Matter line?

[Rakzo]

Following the events of Snyder/Capullo's Metal crossover, The Dark Matter line was heavily advertised as a complete collaboration between some of the biggest writers and artists in DC's roster, this time the pencillers received a much more important role dictating a lot of how the story would be developed.

This apparently comes with its own sort of problems though.

Take for example Robert Venditti/Tony Daniel's Damage. The book already has 3 issues and it feels like barely anything happened which is mostly because of how each chapter is devoted to mindless action, this is not surprising considering Daniel's involvement since he's a really good artist and can draw a pretty entertaining spectacle but people familiar with his writing gigs will suddenly remember that his skills are not the best in that regard, in fact, the best parts of the book are the ones devoted to the protagonist's status as a homeless man which is a pretty unique situation for a superhero book (and probably Venditti is the reason why that section is enjoyable).

Something similar happens with Dan Abnett/John Romita Jr.'s The Silencer which has an incredibly interesting premise, a mother and wife who has to hide her past as an assassin? Sign me in! The thing is that just like with Damage, the stories are mainly concentrated about how much cool sh*t JRJR wants to draw (which is not even as cool as what Daniel does) while the most enjoyable part of the series is when is devoted to the family dynamics.

There are still a couple of books that get this right. Sideways is without a doubt the best book of the line so far and that is because Keneth Rocafort is a quite creative artist whose energetic style is perfect for a teenage superhero book and mixes really well Dan Didio's Kirbyesque ideas (something that he tends to do as seen in his previous work on OMAC and The Forever People) and Justin Jordan's snappy dialogue. Jeff Lemire/Ivan Reis' The Terrifics is also a pretty adequate book, still nothing impressive and at some times seems to be too focused on the spectacle too but at least offers decent team dynamics and characterization.

However, none of the flaws of this direction wasn't as obvious as today's The Immortal Men.

What were you expecting from a collaboration between Jim Lee and James Tynion IV? The premise itself sounded interesting enough but the problem comes with the execution as usual and that is where this book mostly fails. Lee is the kind of artist who can create really cool images but is not the best at storytelling nor creativity which I feel are necessary for a supernatural book. The issues with his work are also evident in the character designs which seem like your typical 90s edgy superhero in many cases.

I can't blame Lee completely since Tynion deserves a lot, if not most of the blame. The third person narration he creates is really overwrought and dull which doesn't make these uninspired characters any more compelling. This is not really surprising though since Tynion's other works are only readable because he's accompanied by really talented artists most of the time and sadly, Lee doesn't offer that kind of strength.

The fact that Lee is not really consistent with his schedule and Tynion's stories tend to fall apart or get even worse with a few issues makes this book even more worrying.

I wish that this line would have been better implemented since I feel it has potential for more. What are your thoughts overall about it?

[MajorHoy]

So, there's a "problem" with things just because you don't like them?

[Rakzo]

Eh, call it whatever you like. Just a few things I notice.

[Iconic]

I don't really see it. Much of what you see as a negative, I find to be positives. These new books are rather interesting.

[JasonTodd428]

I actually don't see any problems with the line so far. The books that I've read thus far are all enjoyable to me and at the end of the day that's all that counts in my book. If other people have a problem that's fine since not every book is going to be to someone's taste but so far they've all resonated with me on some level. So far the only one I'm not picking up is Immortal Men and that's because I simply don't care for Tynion's work so I'm not going to waste me time or money on it.

[dan12456]

Immortal Men 1 was my favourite single issue I've read maybe in 2018. So to each their own.

All I got out of this post is that you didn't like things, not that there are any actual flaws across the line. For instance the character designs in Immortal Men were amazing imo, and I like almost no 90s comics.

[Rakzo]

Immortal Men 1 was my favourite single issue I've read maybe in 2018. So to each their own.

All I got out of this post is that you didn't like things, not that there are any actual flaws across the line. For instance the character designs in Immortal Men were amazing imo, and I like almost no 90s comics.

Well, yes? That's the point of criticism isn't it?

Boy, I don't know what happens with people today.

[dan12456]

Well, yes? That's the point of criticism isn't it?

Boy, I don't know what happens with people today.

You made a thread with a title suggesting wide spread issues with a line. Don't whine when people point out there is no objectivity to the post and its just subjective complaining you could've put in the Dark Matter thread that already exists.

This may be a shock to the ego, but your individual complaints aren't thread worthy.

[Rakzo]

You made a thread with a title suggesting wide spread issues with a line. Don't whine when people point out there is no objectivity to the post and its just subjective complaining you could've put in the Dark Matter thread that already exists.

I don't see any whining here (not from me at least). Just saying my part, that's all.

[dan12456]

I don't see any whining here (not from me at least). Just saying my part, that's all.

You whined that someone dared to question the validity of your thread.
Unless you don't consider "Boy, I don't know what happens with people today" to be whining that I dared critique you.

[Rakzo]

Uh huh. Sure, do whatever you want then.

[Jabare]

The Terrifics is the best book DC is putting out.

Damage is a classic Hulk book.

I'm not reading the others.

Carry on

[Dr. Poison]

The problem? It stars mostly a bunch of new characters that people don't have a connection to yet.

[K. Jones]

I've been trying them all out. I'm not sure what the drop-off rate is going to be like but it isn't looking that promising. I also foresee thanks to both solicitations and just plain instincts that in an effort to combat drop-off, part of the way through the opening storylines, or early in the second storylines, they'll start just having every damn Big DCU Player character show up to try to keep interest going. I mean you want "Sideways" to interact with BATMAN right? And I'm very torn about that, because on one hand, yeah, cohesive universe ... world-building via world-connecting and all that. But on the other hand ... cynical lazy cheap writer move to elicit interest or empathy without actually doing the hard work of making your own character interesting enough to read without a Batman Crossover or whatever. Plus it's EXACTLY the tactic they used in the early days of the New 52, and those books were just not great. (I've been re-reading some of them! It's a bit mortifying. I'm looking at you, "Talon". Let's take all the mystique and secretiveness of these new Owl villains and expose it! That went over about as well as giving us Darth Vader's backstory!)

But I'm not totally cynical here. As with most things, I figure it'll be a mixed bag, and some titles will find their footing and stick-to-it and not lean on guest stars, while others will regress into the worst tendencies. One thing's for sure - most of the big name artists headlining won't make it past issue # 3.

So my thoughts so far have been ...

The Silencer. I really like this title. Romita at his weirdest here seems to fit better than what he was doing with Superman, and it's just so John Wicky and weird that the high-octane action nature of it works really well - as well as being funny and ironically juxtaposed with her quiet homelife. I like the characters, I like the tangential links so far to Talia and Slade because those are natural connections to that assassin-underworld. Her name-drop in Dark Days: The Forge was shameless and shoe-horned, but I eagerly read this comic.

Damage. Tony Daniel's art is always really hit or miss for me, and more the worse when it leans away from grounded realism and more into the unrealistic stuff, so a hulk-like figure with a monstrous anatomy just reeks of Nineties Excess. So far the plot has been very simple, decompressed, and all-actiony, befitting a character like that ... but that's not the sort of thing I'm actually interested in. But that being said, I'm going to keep at it for a little while, just because I feel like after the opening salvo of drawn out introductions, there might be something to glean about Task Force XI, Suicide Squad stuff, and especially Cadmus stuff, as evidenced by the ... once again, shoe-horned, name-dropped stuff in Dark Days: The Forge. This one's on the fence.

Sideways. This title is a lot of fun and Rocafort's designs are fun, too. The depictions of the tears that he jumps through are neat, the cosmic weirdness is neat, and the promise of Grant Morrison is neat. Didio has a weird hit or miss track record but on stuff like this has been surprisingly good (Compare to OMAC), and Justin Jordan is solid enough. So while the title might be awfully derivative, it's possible they'll use its derivative shape and style to expose something interesting and fun about the greater DCU.

Terrifics has been great. Two issues, and we've got the full team stuck together, some weird unexplainable jazz with neat cosmic imagery, heavy heavy METAL connections, and a better use of Metamorpho's cast than we've had in ages. I imagine once it opens up it's just going to get better. Lemire has had a weird record with offbeat B-list DCU teams - his Justice League Unlimited stuff had such a cool cast but just got way too big for its own breeches. But having these characters allows for pretty nice supporting casts to ground our heroes so when weird stuff happens we at least care enough about them being there that they don't get lost in a sea of super-faces. I'm curious to see what changes in my opinion five or six issues in.

Immortal Men. I don't have much to go by since it just started today. We've got team banter that is okay so far, in one issue. Nothing great, but they at least HAVE dialogue dynamics. We've got Jim Lee art that won't last long. It feels like a book launching in the early 2000s. For a different company. Too early to judge, though - it's hard with a team book, when you have to introduce a big cast, to do it quickly (even if they're characters we've all known for ages), and it's hard when you're introducing a new high-concept title, not to lead in with a bit of mystery and intrigue, so it's impossible to say if Immortal Men is going to be in that opening act holding pattern for a handful of issues before we get to plumbing the depths of the concepts and seeing if they have legs. But I will say one nice thing, is that I'm already picking and choosing characters that I like the best out of the line-up (It's the mystery man electric guy, gun guy, and Infinite Woman).

Brimstone. I'll cop to it, I haven't read it yet. I was sort of turned off because ... not the biggest fan of Philip Tan's style. But I read the high-concept and I'm a really small-town kid and so I like the premise a lot. I'll give it a shot at some point!

New Challengers. I hope it's good. This sort of adventure title with multiple characters and weird twists and turns seems far more suited for Snyder's style than anything he's really written so far, and it's fringey enough of a concept that I think I'll enjoy his stuffiness and overly-writerly, writing-for-other-writers droning. Plus it's fringey enough that he can break continuity over there and I'll just be like "who cares, it's the Challengers of the Unknown". I want to see big ideas like his applied to something Z-List like the Challengers. Kubert's always good for a fun run of books. I also feel like this is where we're really going to explore METAL stuff.

Unexpected. It has Sook, and it has Orlando. I'm sure it'll be weird (we met Viking Judge this week! She's a daffy-assed pastiche!). Mostly I think I'm interested in it for the Sook.

[Rakzo]

Damn, how could I forget about The Curse of Brimstone?! Funny enough, this is the kind of title that works in spite of the art.

Justin Jordan has done a pretty solid job at creating an interesting premise and a sympathetic main character in one single issue (in fact he has done a better job at creating a relatable protagonist than the entirety of Damage). The way how the family dynamics work here is really solid and understandable while the motivations of the hero are much more noble than what you usually see which contrasts profoundly with what happens at the end. The natural dialogue certainly helps to make the conversations much more believable.

And it works despite of having some of the messiest artstyles recently. Philip Tan is not necessarily a terrible artist since he has an unique style but boy, is that style hard to read. He doesn't follow the script clearly enough most of the time and the details of the setting and cast are all over the place.

Still, a pretty damn good book and probably one of the best beginnings from the line which is shocking considering what it has against it.