"Civil War" isn't that awesome a film; am I alone in thinking this?

[MindofShadow]

I watched it again on Netflix with the ending in mind...His plan is kind of insane in the sense that he needs to have known everything that was going to happen before it happened (i.e., he had two years to plan this out and execute it, but for his plans to work he would have had to know about the accords, which didn't even come into existence until this movie.)

But again, when you're enjoying yourself, you're much more willing to give a movie a pass on things such as this.

The only insane part was actually getting in front of bucky.

I doubt you can get into a government building filled iwth super heroes with a fugitive assassin inside that easily lol

[Carabas]

I watched it again on Netflix with the ending in mind...His plan is kind of insane in the sense that he needs to have known everything that was going to happen before it happened (i.e., he had two years to plan this out and execute it, but for his plans to work he would have had to know about the accords, which didn't even come into existence until this movie).

I disagree.
I think the only things he needed was the knowledge that Bucky had assassinated Tony's parents, and how to trigger the Winter Soldier conditioning, both of which was reasonable with his background.
The rest he could improvise as necessary, and he lucked out with the Accords, because that made everything so much easier.

[Carabas]

The only insane part was actually getting in front of bucky.

I doubt you can get into a government building filled iwth super heroes with a fugitive assassin inside that easily lol

Then again, that sort of thing is pretty much exactly what he was trained to do professionally.

[Vic Vega]

I watched it again on Netflix with the ending in mind...His plan is kind of insane in the sense that he needs to have known everything that was going to happen before it happened (i.e., he had two years to plan this out and execute it, but for his plans to work he would have had to know about the accords, which didn't even come into existence until this movie.)

All Zemo really had to know was that some Avengers (and Cap in particular) would take the idea of direct Government oversight very, very badly.

An inciting incident was bound to happen sooner or later, the Avengers can't cross the street without causing collateral damage.

[JKtheMac]

I was on record at the time of release that I found CW underwhelming and structurally flawed. Nothing to do with Zemo though. It is mostly because the extended action scenes actively delay and almost derail the story, and place too much stress on an element of the plot that is not dramatically important.

[Matternativ]

Civil War obviously had it's flaws storytelling-wise but I can't help but think they just decided to sacrifice it in order to continue as many story-threads from previous movies as possible which they did masterfully.
The true strength of the film in my opinion is that there is not a single wasted scene. They presented two new heroes + a Villain and it never felt forced while contuing the Avengers story, Ant Man's story, Buckys story, Cap's and Agent 13's romance, Cap's and Falcons search for Bucky, Tony's realtionship issues, Consequences for what happened in Age of Ultron and before and the list goes on and on.

Everything that happened was clear and never confusing, everyones motivations made sense and they pulled off stuffing so much content into the film without it every making it seem overstuffed.
To quote Bob Chipman "...the action movie equivalent of a hit tv-show wheeling out the big guns for sweep-sweep(?), secure along with the audience in the awareness that there is still plenty of episodes to go before the finale." So basically it's the "mid-season-finale" that sets up everything for the second half of the overall universe storyline.
The battle of Helms Deep of the Marvel Universe.

Now I don't have as much of a problem with the DCEU Movies as others as I enjoyed them for what they were (well Suicide Squad kinda annoyed me to be honest) but I can't deny that there was a whole lot more stupidity with a lot less good stuff to make up for it especially since the DC Movies are a lot less driven by character personalities and emotions which makes it harder to connect with the heroes.
That said I do have higher hopes for current DC to learn how to craft a Universe and good Movies soon than I have for the X-Men Movies to become interesting again.*

Sure right now (/metaphor-mode on) Fox isn't about to drown in the ocean like DC does but that is only because they are still standing at the beach and haven't even changed into their Swim-gear yet.
That way they won't learn how to swim like DC-studios will and Marvel already has.


*I know Deadpool was good and the Logan Trailer was sick but I am talkig about the actual X-Men Movies here. Both of these seem to have no real ties to the main movies. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Danileriver23]

I disagree.
I think the only things he needed was the knowledge that Bucky had assassinated Tony's parents, and how to trigger the Winter Soldier conditioning, both of which was reasonable with his background.
The rest he could improvise as necessary, and he lucked out with the Accords, because that made everything so much easier.

Based on my memory of the film, his plan goes like this: 1. first he managed to access the documents that black widow leaked out to the press

2. He somehow deciphered that information and found out that winter solider killed Stark's parents (we know this because he asks the Hydra guy about the October mission report at the beginning)

3. The accords happen to be being signed at this time so demo decides to get facial prosthetics that look like Bucky somehow (how does anyone know what he looks like?) And plant a bomb outside the embassy that somehow kills people on the 12 floor...I still don't get that. So now the heroes and the government's just happen to find Bucky after no one has been able to find him and he assumes that he will be taken in alive.

4. (This is probably the dumbest part) He then made and had an EMP delivered to the power grid of the entire city including the base that Bucky happened to be at, kill the guy who he somehow knew was going to nterview him and replace him without ANYONE KNOWING and get into a room with book right as his device went off. Again, he assumes no one would recapture or kill Bucky here.

*Side note about this part: if Bucky had gotten away this would ruin his plan because no one would tell them to go to Russia to fight the assassin's and if he was captured again, he would just tell them about the assassin's and they would go without him.

5. After he somehow manages to escape, he manages to make it back to the secret base and the superheros fight. Again, if caps team loses, none of this plan works (in fact, if the avengers agree on the accords at all none of this really works).

6. So somehow, he manages to get ironman Ws and cap all too his base conviently to watch that tape, which, btw, holy **** how lucky is it that the Stark's just happen to have crashed right in front of a security camera on a back road and Bucky just happened to look dire fly into the camera.

At best his plan requires god level amounts of luck and at worst it is needlessly convuluted. In fact, going back to what I said earlier, his master plan of breaking up the avengers wouldn't even have worked if not for the accords which he had nothing to do with and assuming their reactions. He probably would've been better off just getting the tape and mailing it to the avengers compound

[Doctor Know]

Zemo and Lex both had insanely convoluted plans. Both of which (Zemo's moreso) were executed to near perfection due to coincidence, convenience, and both villains somehow knowing how a respective character (or group of characters) would react.


Civil War was good. TWS is better though.

[Carabas]

Based on my memory of the film, his plan goes like this: 1. first he managed to access the documents that black widow leaked out to the press

2. He somehow deciphered that information and found out that winter solider killed Stark's parents (we know this because he asks the Hydra guy about the October mission report at the beginning)

3. The accords happen to be being signed at this time so demo decides to get facial prosthetics that look like Bucky somehow (how does anyone know what he looks like?) And plant a bomb outside the embassy that somehow kills people on the 12 floor...I still don't get that. So now the heroes and the government's just happen to find Bucky after no one has been able to find him and he assumes that he will be taken in alive.

4. (This is probably the dumbest part) He then made and had an EMP delivered to the power grid of the entire city including the base that Bucky happened to be at, kill the guy who he somehow knew was going to nterview him and replace him without ANYONE KNOWING and get into a room with book right as his device went off. Again, he assumes no one would recapture or kill Bucky here.

*Side note about this part: if Bucky had gotten away this would ruin his plan because no one would tell them to go to Russia to fight the assassin's and if he was captured again, he would just tell them about the assassin's and they would go without him.

5. After he somehow manages to escape, he manages to make it back to the secret base and the superheros fight. Again, if caps team loses, none of this plan works (in fact, if the avengers agree on the accords at all none of this really works).

6. So somehow, he manages to get ironman Ws and cap all too his base conviently to watch that tape, which, btw, holy **** how lucky is it that the Stark's just happen to have crashed right in front of a security camera on a back road and Bucky just happened to look dire fly into the camera.

At best his plan requires god level amounts of luck and at worst it is needlessly convuluted. In fact, going back to what I said earlier, his master plan of breaking up the avengers wouldn't even have worked if not for the accords which he had nothing to do with and assuming their reactions. He probably would've been better off just getting the tape and mailing it to the avengers compound

The plan still works if the Accords don't exist and he just emails Stark the video. Well, it didn't actually work in the movie... so there's that.

There are many ways that lead to Cap and Stark duking it out over Bucky, and the movie does not convince me that Zemo has this one masterplan that you just detailed.

[Matternativ]

Zemo and Lex both had insanely convoluted plans. Both of which (Zemo's moreso) were executed to near perfection due to coincidence, convince, and both villains somehow knowing how a respective character (or group of characters) would react.

There is no arguing that yes. But one of them at least had clear motivations even though they came as a plot-twist of sorts.
To this day I am still not sure what Luthor's plan was in the end. Sometimes he hates Supes because he is all powerful, then he says something about Satan coming. First he wants Batsy to kill Supes but he also creates Doomsday who would have probably destroyed earth if Bats would have done it and ...i'm just confused.
And sure Wonder Woman and Batfleck made up for him but damn did I hate Lex's behaviour and personality xD

[Danileriver23]

I really loved CW and it's probably one of the most fun movies of the MCU, but I still argue TWS is probably the best film so far.

[Tofali]

I've re-watched TWS 3X but CW only once and it was a chore trying to go thru it. So I agree that CW wasn't that good but i have re-watched the action scenes numerous NUMEROUS times

[gurkle]

It's a well-made movie but I don't think it really holds together. The filmmakers did a really good job trying to combine the story of Cap's search for Bucky (which would have been the story of Captain America 3 if they hadn't had to compete with Batman vs. Superman) with an Avengers/Civil War story and provide teasers for the upcoming Spider-Man and Black Panther movies. But you can still see how these are elements of different films thrown together. They don't seem to belong to one film like TWS did.

Spider-Man was so well-used in the film that it can almost distract from the fact that he has nothing to do with the plot. The final twist works because it goes against the big team-up-to-beat-the-bad-guy scene we were expecting, but the story overall still doesn't make a whole lot of sense even by superhero standards. And even the argument over the Accords and how superheroes should operate seems to be mostly abandoned as the movie goes on, and causes Cap to seem kind of petulant (because he plays right into the villain's hands through his obsession with saving his buddy).

So I was happy with the skill the filmmakers had in portraying most of the characters (including characters like Scarlet Witch who were new to them) I think Captain America was cheated out of his third movie in a way. The first two Cap movies are about Cap. This one is half a Cap movie and half other stuff, including promos for other movies. They did the best they could with that combination.

[davew128]

My problem is with the portrayal of who Zemo was and his motivations. Zemo should have been tied into the Nazis and/or HYDRA. Its a defining element of who he is (directly for Heinrich and indirectly for Helmut). As Zemo is probably the second most well known of Cap's foes, I expected a more personal tie there. Moreso even than with Red Skull, where the rivalry is symbolic more than anything else. As far as characterization and plotting, this was classic Zemo though.

[KFrosty]

The true strength of the film in my opinion is that there is not a single wasted scene. They presented two new heroes + a Villain and it never felt forced while contuing the Avengers story, Ant Man's story, Buckys story, Cap's and Agent 13's romance, Cap's and Falcons search for Bucky, Tony's realtionship issues, Consequences for what happened in Age of Ultron and before and the list goes on and on.


*I know Deadpool was good and the Logan Trailer was sick but I am talkig about the actual X-Men Movies here. Both of these seem to have no real ties to the main movies. Correct me if I am wrong.

I don't recall Ant Man having any character development in this movie, unless you count him becoming a giant as a personality trait.

As for the X-Men movies; Logan may have something to do with the previous movies. The big plot twist in the comic explaining where all the other characters went is most likely to appear in this film.