"Civil War" isn't that awesome a film; am I alone in thinking this?

[Matternativ]

I don't recall Ant Man having any character development in this movie, unless you count him becoming a giant as a personality trait.

As for the X-Men movies; Logan may have something to do with the previous movies. The big plot twist in the comic explaining where all the other characters went is most likely to appear in this film.

I didn't say development I said his story was continued. Also I think it's very much in character to do what he considers the heroic and right thing to do aka supporting Cap who asked for help. I'll eloberate that further below. In any case: His story continues, that has nothing to do with personality traits.

Not only did Ant-Man not get development this kind of ruins his story now. He had a happy ending where he gets to be free and spend time with his daughter again...And now he's a fugitive again and she'll never see him.

I don't think it ruins it at all, it just gives us a different starting point for Ant Man and the Wasp coming in 20-something.
Also after the whole Infinity War they won't be able but to pardon him and throw the accords outta the window anyway. That is if he survives.

Look at it from this angle: If Cap asks you for help and you think he is on the right, what would it say about Scott to deny him his help?
Sure he could have said he wants to be able to spend time with his daughter but it just wouldn't feel in character for him to use that as a reason to "bail".
He wants to be a Hero for her and that is what a Hero does.


@All: I doubt the ending of Civil War means that the Avengers can be best buddies again just like that. Sure Cap made a first step but these guys won't go out drinking beer together any time soon. I even think both teams will be defeated during the next Movie before they realize they can only do that together.

[Troian]

It was a fun action flick, but just that. Given the characterization and what happened in the past Avengers films and such, it left me confused on the sides and the whole premise. Also, did they ever touch on the serum or whatever that they took from Crossbones in the beginning? I don't think they did.

[ijacksparrow]

I watched it again on Netflix with the ending in mind...His plan is kind of insane in the sense that he needs to have known everything that was going to happen before it happened (i.e., he had two years to plan this out and execute it, but for his plans to work he would have had to know about the accords, which didn't even come into existence until this movie.)

But again, when you're enjoying yourself, you're much more willing to give a movie a pass on things such as this.

Unless... that wasn't his original plan. Which makes sense when you think really hard about everything that is going on in the film. And I have a theory that Zemo's misdirection hides a misdirection to the audiences that will possibly pay off in the future. Something happens almost by the end of the film that makes me think that Zemo is still playing the long game and fooled EVERYONE. Including the audiences. Will they go that route? Up for grabs, but the seeds are there.

As for the OP: Captain America: Civil War is to me The Empire Strikes Back of superhero films, while The Avengers is A New Hope. It's my favorite superhero film of all time and the only people that I see complaining about the film'/ success and its critic/public acclaim are people like you - i.e. people that wish DCEU films had same fate as the Marvel Studios films. Take that as you will.

[Matternativ]

Unless... that wasn't his original plan. Which makes sense when you think really hard about everything that is going on in the film. And I have a theory that Zemo's misdirection hides a misdirection to the audiences that will possibly pay off in the future. Something happens almost by the end of the film that makes me think that Zemo is still playing the long game and fooled EVERYONE. Including the audiences. Will they go that route? Up for grabs, but the seeds are there.

As for the OP: Captain America: Civil War is to me The Empire Strikes Back of superhero films, while The Avengers is A New Hope. It's my favorite superhero film of all time and the only people that I see complaining about the film'/ success and its critic/public acclaim are people like you - i.e. people that wish DCEU films had same fate as the Marvel Studios films. Take that as you will.

I think Dan didn't say that. He isn't the OP of this thread.

That said I too wish the DCEU would catch up and I am saying that as an absolute Marvel guy. Good rivalries can push either side to become better but of course first there'd have to be an actual rivalry for that to have any effect.

[ijacksparrow]

I think Dan didn't say that. He isn't the OP of this thread.

That said I too wish the DCEU would catch up and I am saying that as an absolute Marvel guy. Good rivalries can push either side to become better but of course first there'd have to be an actual rivalry for that to have any effect.

Oh, OP means original poster, I know that Dan isn't him(her). Sorry for the confusion.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=op

And yeah I'm a Big Two guy like my pull list can prove. But the DCEU is in danger. I'm thinking about starting to finally watch their DC TV shows and drop the film universe altogether until they reboot or get their stuff together.

[robreedwrites]

The biggest "issue" with Zemo's plans is that the audience doesn't know what he knows until he knows everything. To me from the way Zemo acts (asking for mission report), I don't think he "knows" that Bucky killed Stark's parents until he reaches that bunker. He suspects though. The way I see it, SHIELD's leaked files contained mission dates for Bucky, but did not have any mention of the other Winter Soldiers. Zemo knows there was a mission on December 16, 1991 and also knows Stark's parents died that date (which is public knowledge, per the opening to Iron Man (2008)). He suspects, though once again isn't sure. When the HYDRA operative doesn't give him the information he needs, he knows he needs to track down Bucky.

He takes advantage of the UN meeting and makes his attack under the guise of Bucky (whose visage is public knowledge due to the leaked SHIELD files as is shown when the news broadcast identifies Bucky). He does this because he knows there's a chance the Joint Taskforce will get him, or at least lure him out into the public eye again, making him easier to track.

You do have to suspend your disbelief a bit to get him into the interrogation room, but once he's there he gets the mission report from Bucky along with where he was kept. He still doesn't have proof though.

So finally he's on his way to the bunker, the only thing he was after, and he finds the proof the murders. It is my opinion that he doesn't kill the other winter soldiers until after he has proof. Once he has that and assurances he can secure himself, he can kill them and still keep his plan from failing. If he couldn't find proof, he could easily have awoken the other Winter Soldiers to give the Avengers something to think about while he started over. If Iron Man didn't show up, he could've copied the tape and e-mailed it. Since they showed up, he got to watch them (which he doesn't really do, anyway).

To me, it's not a particularly well-designed plan, so much as it is a man on a singular quest leaving himself contingencies to complete it.

[Carabas]

...To me, it's not a particularly well-designed plan, so much as it is a man on a singular quest leaving himself contingencies to complete it.

And this is exactly my take on it as well.

Zemo's great strength isn't in planning but in improvising.

[Matternativ]

Oh, OP means original poster, I know that Dan isn't him(her). Sorry for the confusion.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=op

And yeah I'm a Big Two guy like my pull list can prove. But the DCEU is in danger. I'm thinking about starting to finally watch their DC TV shows and drop the film universe altogether until they reboot or get their stuff together.

Yeah give it a shot. Personally I didn't make it beyond the first episode of the second season of Flash and I didn't watch Supergirl yet but I still watch Arrow which kinda bounces around between being kinda good to kinda bad from season to season.

That said The Flash seems to be the one who has the biggest fanbase out of those three so I'd say you go and watch that and if it's a little too silly/shallow and repetitive for you, you can try Arrow.
Just try to ignore the constant drama and relationship-stuff then you'll have a good enough time.

[Doctor Know]

To me, it's not a particularly well-designed plan, so much as it is a man on a singular quest leaving himself contingencies to complete it.

And this is exactly my take on it as well.

Zemo's great strength isn't in planning but in improvising.

Improvising doesn't preclude having Mission Impossible style masks with the face of the person he's looking for, bombing the UN and having a EMP device knock out a power station; all that will lead to an elaborate chase, the capture of Bucky and his transport 4 hour drive away to a classified prison facility. Which Zemo gained access to by knowing and killing the person who would be in charge of Bucky's interrogation (all presuming he was indeed captured) and sent to that specific facility. Too many things just fell into place with for Zemo. Honest Trailers and Cinemasins both pointed out how crazy his plan was and how successful he was by coincidence. Then again, when people think of Civil War, it's not Zemo they're thinking of. It's the airport fight with all the Avengers and the final fight between Cap, Bucky and Stark.

[Coal Tiger]

Improvising doesn't preclude having Mission Impossible style masks with the face of the person he's looking for, bombing the UN and having a EMP device knock out a power station; all that will lead to an elaborate chase, the capture of Bucky and his transport 4 hour drive away to a classified prison facility. Which Zemo gained access to by knowing and killing the person who would be in charge of Bucky's interrogation (all presuming he was indeed captured) and sent to that specific facility. Too many things just fell into place with for Zemo. Honest Trailers and Cinemasins both pointed out how crazy his plan was and how successful he was by coincidence. Then again, when people think of Civil War, it's not Zemo they're thinking of. It's the airport fight with all the Avengers and the final fight between Cap, Bucky and Stark.

The only thing Zemo needed to know is standard SHIELD procedure, who the facility's psychologist was and what the cities power grid looked like. If Bucky was killed instead of captured, that works to hurt Captain America too. Though having faith that Cap would keep Bucky alive is more an analysis of skill than simple chance or coincidence.

[AndyBeau]

Something that bothered me following the Stark vs. Rogers/Bucky fight was how...okay...Tony seemed. Even before receiving the package from Cap, he didn't seem as impacted by everything that had happened. Might have to watch it again.

[Thad937]

I hated the shaky cam in the first scene. Zemo wasn't much of an antagonist IMO. Other than that, I liked the film. One could say that the film was bad but Marvel/Disney is laughing all the way to the bank.

[EgoManiac]

For me it was the perfect comic book event movie and I loved it!!
I love reading comic books with super heroes interacting with each other, that's what got me hooked to marvel comics and after years of individual super hero stories I got it in a movie.
Avengers 1 was a once in a lifetime movie, it will never be replicated for me, nothing can be compared to it. Avengers 2 was more of an adventure.

CW, has a lot of super heroes/characters with their individual stories/arcs especially with Black Panther with his father dying and struggling with vengeance, Vision and Scarlet Witch relationship taking steps forward, Spidey being Spidey Not to even mention Cap with Winter Solider and Iron man's awesome story. The Accords still went into effect. All these little stories are basically tie-ins to main story.


I understand the movie is getting criticized/reviewed as a "movie" movie and people want to review it in a vacuum but the best part of Marvel for me is reading Heroes interact with other heroes in stories, currently Champions is my favorite series Kamala, Miles and Sam are just so fking awesome together hopefully we can get them in the MCU at the same time.
Popular or not this is my opinion and I'm for more of the same in INFINITY WAR movies. In Russos we trust.

[lapis]

I find Civil War pretty boring. I was unable to make it through a second viewing. For me, it just isn't a "fun" movie. The drab, grey aesthetic doesn't work for me in superhero movies.

[KFrosty]

I didn't say development I said his story was continued. Also I think it's very much in character to do what he considers the heroic and right thing to do aka supporting Cap who asked for help. I'll eloberate that further below. In any case: His story continues, that has nothing to do with personality traits.

I don't think it ruins it at all, it just gives us a different starting point for Ant Man and the Wasp coming in 20-something.
Also after the whole Infinity War they won't be able but to pardon him and throw the accords outta the window anyway. That is if he survives.

Look at it from this angle: If Cap asks you for help and you think he is on the right, what would it say about Scott to deny him his help?
Sure he could have said he wants to be able to spend time with his daughter but it just wouldn't feel in character for him to use that as a reason to "bail".
He wants to be a Hero for her and that is what a Hero does.


@All: I doubt the ending of Civil War means that the Avengers can be best buddies again just like that. Sure Cap made a first step but these guys won't go out drinking beer together any time soon. I even think both teams will be defeated during the next Movie before they realize they can only do that together.

I guess you're right, but I do feel like Ant-Man's only purpose in this film was to go Giant and then get arrested. While it does kill the happy ending vibe given off in his movie, it definitely does align with his character.

I think your last sentence is one of the most plausible predictions I have ever heard about a movie in general. It is also why I am so interested in viewing the sequels so much. Their relationships will no longer be the same, and now it's all about what will happen between them when they face their biggest threats.