"Civil War" isn't that awesome a film; am I alone in thinking this?

[Agent Z]

Plenty suggests that.

SW and QS wanted revenge on the Avengers, specifically Tony (likely fueled by anything Ultron was telling them). They backpedaled on their support of Ultron when they realized he wanted to exterminate all life on Earth, and actively chose to begin fighting against him when Ultron and the Avengers were fighting over Vision's shell, when innocent lives were in danger. Neither of them wanted to hurt innocents (mind you, they deemed Stark and co. to be guilty).



I'm not contesting this point. However, it is a potential explanation as to why Ross didn't bring it up.

They backpedaled because they were afraid Ultron would kill them too. And them attacking the Avengers, who had nothing to do with their parents' deaths show they have no problem endangering innocents' when it suits their goals. No one acts like this was not the plan at all. Ultron even says to Tony, "You'll have to catch Dr. Banner".

[Byakko]

They backpedaled because they were afraid Ultron would kill them too. And them attacking the Avengers, who had nothing to do with their parents' deaths show they have no problem endangering innocents' when it suits their goals. No one acts like this was not the plan at all. Ultron even says to Tony, "You'll have to catch Dr. Banner".

The prequel comic somewhat addresses that. First their parents died from the 'Stark brand missile' that fell on them. Then the twins were actively protesting what they deemed as continued policing by SHIELD forces (I think, been a while) in their hometown, who were there as a peacekeeping/recovery team because the town got hit by Avengers collateral damage or something. Then Hydra sleeper agents in SHIELD purposely fanned the local resentment flames, and got the twins involved with experiments so they could fight what they saw as overbearing policing by the Avengers, SHIELD, and Stark, on equal ground i.e. with superpowers.

Honestly, the twins' real main grief was with Stark. I don't think they set out to endanger innocents, but their whole motivation was personal and somewhat localized from the start so they just didn't care about the collateral. Heck I don't think they even knew what Hydra actually was, they just signed up on the spot just for the chance to get back at Stark.

[JKtheMac]

The prequel comic somewhat addresses that. First their parents died from the 'Stark brand missile' that fell on them. Then the twins were actively protesting what they deemed as continued policing by SHIELD forces (I think, been a while) in their hometown, who were there as a peacekeeping/recovery team because the town got hit by Avengers collateral damage or something. Then Hydra sleeper agents in SHIELD purposely fanned the local resentment flames, and got the twins involved with experiments so they could fight what they saw as overbearing policing by the Avengers, SHIELD, and Stark, on equal ground i.e. with superpowers.

Honestly, the twins' real main grief was with Stark. I don't think they set out to endanger innocents, but their whole motivation was personal and somewhat localized from the start so they just didn't care about the collateral. Heck I don't think they even knew what Hydra actually was, they just signed up on the spot just for the chance to get back at Stark.

Indeed you dont even need to read supporting material for any of this. The evidence for each point is in the movie. In the speech about the Stark logo on the missile, in archive news reports and in the context of the twins upbringing. AoU is a movie that rewards repeat viewings. Lots of visual analogy and subtext too. A much better movie in my opinion.

[Frontier]

They backpedaled because they were afraid Ultron would kill them too. And them attacking the Avengers, who had nothing to do with their parents' deaths show they have no problem endangering innocents' when it suits their goals. No one acts like this was not the plan at all. Ultron even says to Tony, "You'll have to catch Dr. Banner".

Were they? The way Ultron was acting around them, they should've felt they were the only ones safe from his wiping out humanity.

[robreedwrites]

So why was Wanda siccing the Hulk on a populated area not brought up once in this film? Cause that feels like a better argument for the Accords.

Also, I know everyone says the teams were pulling punches during the airport fight but really? We see Wanda dump a bunch of cars on Tony, Scott throwing a fuel tanker at Rhodes, him trying to bat Rhodes with an airplane wing and him messing around with Stark's suit which could have killed him.

And why does everyone act like Ross owns the U.N?

With this one, Scott explicitly states that he thought it was a water truck and Steve looks pretty upset at the error.

[Star_Jammer]

They backpedaled because they were afraid Ultron would kill them too. And them attacking the Avengers, who had nothing to do with their parents' deaths show they have no problem endangering innocents' when it suits their goals. No one acts like this was not the plan at all. Ultron even says to Tony, "You'll have to catch Dr. Banner".

Again, the twins thought the Avengers (mostly be association w/ Stark) were guilty of wrecking their home country. Captain America even realizes that the twins (metaphorically) think they are "at war". Coupled with any lie, fable, tall-tale, or simple exaggeration that Ultron could have told them to exacerbate their feelings...yeah, they didn't think the Avengers were innocents.

And Ultron was connected with the internet across the globe; wouldn't have been anything for him to pick up a news report of the Hulk attacking the city. Plus, SW's comment about "I want the big one" after QS runs her outside from Hawkeye's attack doesn't suggest any pre-emptive planning.

[Vinsanity]

I mean it was a decent start but then just got meh. The problem I think they tried to do too much and I would love to see more Renner as well. Rendog is a legend. The fights did drag on. You need action pieces that if they are going to drag on they need to be really fast paced and stuff.

It's not a bad movie at all. It's a funish movie but the previous 2 Avenger movies were a lot better.

[JKtheMac]

I mean it was a decent start but then just got meh. The problem I think they tried to do too much and I would love to see more Renner as well. Rendog is a legend. The fights did drag on. You need action pieces that if they are going to drag on they need to be really fast paced and stuff.

It's not a bad movie at all. It's a funish movie but the previous 2 Avenger movies were a lot better.

You need action that actually drives the plot forward. The airport scene has very little impact on the plot. It was fun, but it was a total diversion. Felt like I was watching a DVD extra, like they had left the extended pod-racing scene in Phantom Menace.

[Vinsanity]

You need action that actually drives the plot forward. The airport scene has very little impact on the plot. It was fun, but it was a total diversion. Felt like I was watching a DVD extra, like they had left the extended pod-racing scene in Phantom Menace.

Yeah that's what I mean. Like you compare it to something like Mission Impossible where the action plots actually drives it forward.

[Bukdiah]

I thought it was pretty slow to begin with. A lot of the movie was characters choosing sides and reiterating why they chose that side. An event would happen and a character would use that to further solidify their stance. It got tiring after a bit because of the repetition. The action was cool for the most part. I thought Spidey was pretty shoe horned in and Zemo's plan in general required luck to work. Not a really compelling villain either, just some normal guy with some military background (if I remember correctly).

It wasn't terrible, but I only saw it once.

[Valamist]

I was not so sure about the film when it was first announced. I mean, with so many characters I was sure it would tumble under its own wait. As such I was surprised by just how good it was. Honestly I do not think they could have done any better. Every character got a moment in the spotlight, none really felt wasted and the story actually worked. In particular I would say that Black Panther was the best thing about the film, with highlights being Spider-Man and adding some unexpected depth to Vision.

[Klaxton]

Based on my memory of the film, his plan goes like this: 1. first he managed to access the documents that black widow leaked out to the press

2. He somehow deciphered that information and found out that winter solider killed Stark's parents (we know this because he asks the Hydra guy about the October mission report at the beginning)

3. The accords happen to be being signed at this time so demo decides to get facial prosthetics that look like Bucky somehow (how does anyone know what he looks like?) And plant a bomb outside the embassy that somehow kills people on the 12 floor...I still don't get that. So now the heroes and the government's just happen to find Bucky after no one has been able to find him and he assumes that he will be taken in alive.

4. (This is probably the dumbest part) He then made and had an EMP delivered to the power grid of the entire city including the base that Bucky happened to be at, kill the guy who he somehow knew was going to nterview him and replace him without ANYONE KNOWING and get into a room with book right as his device went off. Again, he assumes no one would recapture or kill Bucky here.

*Side note about this part: if Bucky had gotten away this would ruin his plan because no one would tell them to go to Russia to fight the assassin's and if he was captured again, he would just tell them about the assassin's and they would go without him.

5. After he somehow manages to escape, he manages to make it back to the secret base and the superheros fight. Again, if caps team loses, none of this plan works (in fact, if the avengers agree on the accords at all none of this really works).

6. So somehow, he manages to get ironman Ws and cap all too his base conviently to watch that tape, which, btw, holy **** how lucky is it that the Stark's just happen to have crashed right in front of a security camera on a back road and Bucky just happened to look dire fly into the camera.

At best his plan requires god level amounts of luck and at worst it is needlessly convuluted. In fact, going back to what I said earlier, his master plan of breaking up the avengers wouldn't even have worked if not for the accords which he had nothing to do with and assuming their reactions. He probably would've been better off just getting the tape and mailing it to the avengers compound

Its as if the script writers thought "Hey we want so.and so to.happen.so how will tjat work? And not.ifbitbwould make sense

Zemo and Lex both had insanely convoluted plans. Both of which (Zemo's moreso) were executed to near perfection due to coincidence, convenience, and both villains somehow knowing how a respective character (or group of characters) would react.


Civil War was good. TWS is better though.

This

[Klaxton]

Not only did Ant-Man not get development this kind of ruins his story now. He had a happy ending where he gets to be free and spend time with his daughter again...And now he's a fugitive again and she'll never see him.

Thank goodness Ant Man 2 addressed that. That makes me wonder - Cap and team are such dbags that they drag a guy into something he has no.reason to.be.involved in but then.leaves him to.rot in.prison,

[The Cool Thatguy]

Something that bothered me following the Stark vs. Rogers/Bucky fight was how...okay...Tony seemed. Even before receiving the package from Cap, he didn't seem as impacted by everything that had happened. Might have to watch it again.

In the lead up to the fight, every thing that happened acted to push every one of Tony's buttons. I imagine that after some time, he managed to calm down. But in the heat of the moment...

[The Cool Thatguy]

A remarkable coincidence that their just happened to be a camera located at the precise location of the Starks crashed vehicle and pointed at the very angle where which records Bucky killing the Starks. Also coincidence that HYDRA somehow came in possession of the tape and somehow Zemo, who is not a member of HYDRA but a regular Sokovian soldier, discovered it's existence and knew to play it at the secret bunker in Russia, in front of Cap, Iron Man and Bucky.

What broke the Avengers up were the Accords and their disagreements on them. Not Zemo's plan. Which was nonsensical and like he read the script. The only thing that didn't go his way was his suicide attempt.

How is that a coincidence?

Stark had a prototype flying car in the freakin' 40s. Video cameras in the 80s is hardly far fetched.

As to why Hydra would have it, they were part of Shield at the time. They no doubt ran the investigation and hell, probably enabled Bucky to approach undetected