Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 38
  1. #16
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    In the Tardis reading X-Books
    Posts
    13,076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Maleev really carried this issue more so than Bendis IMO. But what was up with Doom's disappearring cape? He looks naked without it.



    That's the one thing I worry about most is how Bendis will portray Cynthia von Doom. I prefer that her death would be left untouched and I hope Bendis doesn't ruin the GN Triumph and Torment by making her into an instrument of evil. It does appear she may be working with the Maker, if future covers are a hint of things to come.

    I am glad that Doom was able to reset his Doombots so that they stopped attacking. Byrne's contention was that they would act independently until they were in his presence and then they would immediately switch over being his to command.
    Yep. That was always the default setting. Writers need to do their research.
    “Now faith, hope, and love remain, and the greatest of these is love.”--1 Corinthians 13:13

    “You had a dream; I have a plan”--Cyclops

    “There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.”--The Doctor

  2. #17
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Of note: Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur was set at Halloween and guest starred Ironheart in her slim red armor. It's probably safe to say that both Iron Man books are also set several months in the past in relation to Captain America (where Maria has been fired).
    I haven't picked that one up yet. I'll probably just get the digital edition. Sometimes my LCS doesn't carry the low selling stuff unless you specifically ask for it and I didn't bother. It's a small place and he doesn't have a lot of room.

  3. #18
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    Yep. That was always the default setting. Writers need to do their research.
    Maybe that's no longer the default setting. Just because one writer establishes something doesn't mean it's exempt from alteration.

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,019

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Maybe that's no longer the default setting. Just because one writer establishes something doesn't mean it's exempt from alteration.
    Well, obviously nothing in comics is scared, but that doesn't mean altering something major or important established by another writer is necessary or warranted. Of course most comic writers can't leave well enough alone...

    Obviously we haven't seen how this might play out, but with Bendis' spotty record I'd understand being wary.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    I can see the logic behind not designating someone like Kristoff as the interim head of government. Doom wanted to show the world he was making a clean break and stepping down from power in Latveria. To that end, having Kristoff placed in charge would only be counterproductive; it creates the impression that Doom would still really control Latveria thanks to his chosen (and presumably puppet) successor. At least now, with Latveria lying in ruins, no one can deny that Doom is a man of his word...
    This is what we call lack of internal validity on BMB's part. Sure Doom can be irrational and make decisions that aren't the best but everything else he's done post SAW has seemed to be calculated and not impulsive. BMB's story just doesn't add up

  6. #21
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    This is what we call lack of internal validity on BMB's part. Sure Doom can be irrational and make decisions that aren't the best but everything else he's done post SAW has seemed to be calculated and not impulsive. BMB's story just doesn't add up
    Seeing the rapid collapse of Latveria is actually one of the most believable aspects of the Marvel universe today. Governments fail all the time, when even the most efficient and disciplined regime can be brought to ruin by a sudden and unexpected change in leadership.

    Doom ruled Latveria as an absolute monarch, never seriously entertaining the thought of a successor seeing as how Doom is apparently immortal. Moreover, even in moments when Doom had to travel abroad he usually left a Doombot in charge. So that as far as the Latverian people were concerned Doom's stern leadership was a constant fixture of their lives.

    As such, it shouldn't come as any great shock that the moment Doom abdicated power Latveria erupted into chaos. All the constant effort Doom spent maintaining the perfect nation state, free of the usually political infighting, erupted in years of pent-up ambitions and petty self-interest. In this context, Latveria's fall not only makes sense it's a direct and inevitable consequence of Doom's decisions post-Secret War.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Seeing the rapid collapse of Latveria is actually one of the most believable aspects of the Marvel universe today. Governments fail all the time, when even the most efficient and disciplined regime can be brought to ruin by a sudden and unexpected change in leadership.

    Doom ruled Latveria as an absolute monarch, never seriously entertaining the thought of a successor seeing as how Doom is apparently immortal. Moreover, even in moments when Doom had to travel abroad he usually left a Doombot in charge. So that as far as the Latverian people were concerned Doom's stern leadership was a constant fixture of their lives.

    As such, it shouldn't come as any great shock that the moment Doom abdicated power Latveria erupted into chaos. All the constant effort Doom spent maintaining the perfect nation state, free of the usually political infighting, erupted in years of pent-up ambitions and petty self-interest. In this context, Latveria's fall not only makes sense it's a direct and inevitable consequence of Doom's decisions post-Secret War.
    It's not that it fell into chaos, it's that Doom didn't have a better plan to transfer power. I agree that if Doom simply left the "keys to the car" in one man's hands, as depicted, this outcome is quite reasonable. My point is that even a reformed Doom has more sense than to do something like that
    Last edited by Biclopcicle; 01-28-2017 at 05:59 PM.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    401

    Default

    I just read issue 4 , not a bad read good art . I am taking both iron man series lightly . I've been a long time collector of the iron man title . And figure they will both end by issue 12 and Tony will be back . But I cold be totally wrong ,

  9. #24
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    It's not that it fell into chaos, it's that Doom didn't have a better plan to transfer power. I agree that if Doom simply left the "keys to the car" in one man's hands, as depicted, this outcome is quite reasonable. My point is that even a reformed Doom has more sense than to do something like that
    I think he would at least have been more aware of what progress had been made toward building a new government. We saw back in that Vote Loki series that there was already factions warring against each other. It even made the news.

  10. #25
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Biclopcicle View Post
    It's not that it fell into chaos, it's that Doom didn't have a better plan to transfer power. I agree that if Doom simply left the "keys to the car" in one man's hands, as depicted, this outcome is quite reasonable. My point is that even a reformed Doom has more sense than to do something like that
    Frankly, Doom's plan for the transition of power in Latveria is pretty reasonable. Appoint the military as the interim government until civilian leaders (chosen by the people?) can be put in place. Heaps of real world governments use this sort of plan from time to time, after periods of upheaval, as this approach often works to stabilise a country. Of course, if the people want to riot anyway then even the best laid plans can quickly fall apart, as is the case in Latveria.

    With that said, this discussion about what went wrong in Latveria precludes the possibility of outside influence. Perhaps it's cynical of me but I won't be surprised if a foreign organisation like Shield or Hydra was funding certain dissident groups in order to destabilise Latveria. If only to make sure that Doom would never again have a power base to return to later. But thus far no Marvel comic has hinted at such geopolitical skulduggery, it's just speculation on my part.

  11. #26
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    That would be an interesting element to introduce, Kintor. Reed tried to do that towards the end of Mark Waid's run and it lasted for a couple of years. Doom was stuck in hell and didn't return until the early part of the first Civil War event. JMS just sort of cut to the chase and had Doom return to power in about 2 seconds after he got back from Hell.

    I liked seeing him return to Latveria in this issue but he went because he found out that's where Ben went. I'd like to know more about these new characters brought up, the general and woman he recommended for chancellor. One wonders though if Doom's finances are still entangled with Latveria's . Seems like he always considered the national treasury at his disposal so I wonder what his source of income would be now that he has this palatial residence in Switzerland. It wouldn't surprise me if he had this set up for years, going back to the time when Kristoff kept control of Latveria.

  12. #27
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Where the Diwatas and the Triumph Division live
    Posts
    8,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Knight1047 View Post
    Oh, and I hate the fact that his mother is back. Hopefully, it's a trick or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    That's the one thing I worry about most is how Bendis will portray Cynthia von Doom. I prefer that her death would be left untouched and I hope Bendis doesn't ruin the GN Triumph and Torment by making her into an instrument of evil. It does appear she may be working with the Maker, if future covers are a hint of things to come.
    Thirded. I really don't want him to mess up Cynthia. The woman earned her redemption already, no need to bring her back to Earth with the new Multiverse.
    Human Torch/Fantastic Four/She-Hulk/Disney Big Hero 6 /Tangled/G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero/Transformers G1 fanatic, Avatar-maker, and Marvel Moderator
    "一人じゃないから。" AI、『Story』。
    "ヒロ、お前を信じてる。" タダシ、『ベイマックス』。
    "You were my my new dream." "And you were mine." Eugene Fitzherbert and Rapunzel.
    "Knowing is half the battle."
    G.I. Joe.
    Know the CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Haquim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintor View Post
    Seeing the rapid collapse of Latveria is actually one of the most believable aspects of the Marvel universe today. Governments fail all the time, when even the most efficient and disciplined regime can be brought to ruin by a sudden and unexpected change in leadership.

    Doom ruled Latveria as an absolute monarch, never seriously entertaining the thought of a successor seeing as how Doom is apparently immortal. Moreover, even in moments when Doom had to travel abroad he usually left a Doombot in charge. So that as far as the Latverian people were concerned Doom's stern leadership was a constant fixture of their lives.

    As such, it shouldn't come as any great shock that the moment Doom abdicated power Latveria erupted into chaos. All the constant effort Doom spent maintaining the perfect nation state, free of the usually political infighting, erupted in years of pent-up ambitions and petty self-interest. In this context, Latveria's fall not only makes sense it's a direct and inevitable consequence of Doom's decisions post-Secret War.
    Seems to me Bendis is showing 2 conflicting things: one one side without Doom Latveria went immediately to ruin which implies Doom didn't correctly implement his exit strategy. On the other hand he shows us Doom who THINKS he's able to find a solution to the problem in 5 seconds by cross referencing databases. The only way for this to make sense is that Doom is ignoring some variables. He's git the right answer according to his theory but that theory doesn't really hold up to reality.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Biclopcicle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquim View Post
    Seems to me Bendis is showing 2 conflicting things: one one side without Doom Latveria went immediately to ruin which implies Doom didn't correctly implement his exit strategy. On the other hand he shows us Doom who THINKS he's able to find a solution to the problem in 5 seconds by cross referencing databases. The only way for this to make sense is that Doom is ignoring some variables. He's git the right answer according to his theory but that theory doesn't really hold up to reality.
    Exactly. Sure that are plenty of real-world instances of such transfers of political power. And they tend to end pretty poorly. Almost exactly as BMB portrayed. Doom is way above leaving his people, whom he has always loved, in such a state of affairs. The only counter argument to this is that perhaps he was so distraught from the events of Secret Wars, his battle/argument with Reed there at the end (you hold too tightly etc etc), and his effective redemption/second chance Reed gave him that he acted somewhat irrationally and relinquished power "cold turkey." But it's a weak argument. Doom still has his one superpower, which is his iron will (read emperor Doom and see how he does vs Purple Man). No doubt he would believe himself capable of providing a stable, progressive transition of power that would avoid destabilization. But it would be significantly more difficult for BMB to craft the story he wanted to tell around that framework.

  15. #30
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Latverian Embassy
    Posts
    20,623

    Default

    That's an interesting point you bring up Biclopcicle about what exactly was the lesson Victor learned at the end of Secret Wars and it just may have something to do with him letting go a little too much, too quickly.

    Once again, it depends on the writer as to what message they want to convey about Doom's leaderhip. Early issue with Stan and Jack show that he was in the shadows at first (FF annual #2). Byrne was more generous in his assessment of Doom's relationships with other Latverians

    We have seen some sort of chain of command in the past. Doom has been prone to these long absences so there has to be some kind of structure in place. Doombots take care of part of that but we've seen that the town of Doomstadt has a burgomeister that he's had a working relationship with as in Byrne's "This Land is Mine" (FF#247). Some can be a less the kindly burgomaster type like with the unknown fellow from JMS's FF #537 or Waid's Chancellor Beltaine in Daredevil



    In Waid's Daredevil, there was Chancellor Beltane. Waid's not exactly subtle about what he thinks about Doom as a leader with the "Heil Doom" salute.



    And this fellow ran things while Doom was trapped in Hell. Right now, he's probably in an unmarked grave

    Last edited by Iron Maiden; 07-23-2019 at 10:52 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •