New 52. How did it all start anyway?

[GlennSimpson]

And everything fell into place with Jim Lee being promoted at the same time and Wildstorm being discontinued later that year.
Didio's ideas of rebooting perfectly meshed with Lee's previous Heroes Reborn concept and gave an opportunity to bring the Wildstorm characters over into the DCU.

DC got to have Lee on Justice League with Johns and Lee's Wildstorm characters got promoted to the DC Universe, while Didio got his long wanted reboot.
It was a win for all involved.

FWIW, I heard that Johns/Lee were going to be on JL anyway. Story is that the 2nd arc was going to be their 1st arc on JL, and then when the reboot was determined, they had to go back and do the origin arc.

[Lee Stone]

FWIW, I heard that Johns/Lee were going to be on JL anyway. Story is that the 2nd arc was going to be their 1st arc on JL, and then when the reboot was determined, they had to go back and do the origin arc.

That's interesting...
I wonder how the transition would've gone without the reboot.

However, IIRC, I think the conversation between Starman and Shade in the first issue of the Shade mini-series might've been written with that in mind since it referred to Starman's stint in the League as being over.

[GlennSimpson]

That's interesting...
I wonder how the transition would've gone without the reboot.

However, IIRC, I think the conversation between Starman and Shade in the first issue of the Shade mini-series might've been written with that in mind since it referred to Starman's stint in the League as being over.

Yeah, Cyborg was already a member, so that was no big thing. I'd have to review everyone else's status at that point. Obviously the second arc either wasn't drawn yet or they went back and modified the costumes to match the new52 versions.

[Doctor Know]

Yeah, this checks out from what I had heard at the time. Didio had been pushing for a reboot for years, but Levitz never went for it while he was president. So, when Levitz left his position in 2009 and Didio was named Co-Publisher, there was nobody really left to stand in his way in insisting on a reboot.


Yeah, but I think as we've seen, the New 52 proved to be a very, very poor solution to the problem and in all senses made things worse.

I would call the New 52 a stop-gap fix. Freeing up continuity and allowing a reset of the character's allowed the writers and editors a lot of creative liberty and they were able to tell stories they couldn't before. The problem came around 2013-2014; about 20-30 issues into most characters runs. There we saw ideas start to run dry and stories started to suck just like they did in the years prior to New 52. Rudderless, is what I'd say most titles were at the time. Then we got the Marvel Now equivalent for DC, DC YOU in 2015. This after DC's plans for "Future's End" (which is New 52 equivalent of Countdown) and the integration of Earth 2, and plot lines from the surrounding arcs were dropped, and TPTB went in another direction to attract more readers. DC YOU failed, just like Marvel's All New, All Different failed, and now DC has done their "Rebirth" to get back to some semblance of the Pre-New 52 DCU.

The New 52 died because TPTB simply ran out of ideas. It had all been done before and nobody was enjoying themselves.

[Ascended]

The New 52 died because TPTB simply ran out of ideas. It had all been done before and nobody was enjoying themselves.

I'd say that one of the major failings of reboots is that you can free up your continuity, but you're still limited by the perception of the characters. Just look at the mixed reaction to Superman; he was very much in line with previous versions of the character (evolving from Golden Age social crusader to Silver Age cosmic explorer to modern Age uber-hero over 19 issues) but some people freaked out because that version didn't fit what they believe Superman is.

What's the point of having a blank slate with Superman (or anyone) if all you can do is tell the same stories and/or the same kind of stories you were already telling?

The next time DC reboots (I'd rather they never do it again but we all know its only a matter of time) Id sorta like to see them really go for broke. Pull a Silver Age and put new faces and new costumes on old names. If your "new" continuity is limited because there's only so many topics and themes you can explore with Barry Allen, then get rid of Barry Allen and introduce....I dunno, Joe Smith, to the role of the Flash with a new costume and status quo.

Rebooting is basically throwing up your hands and saying "We give up, we screwed things up beyond fixing!" so if you're gonna pull a weak ass move like that you might as well go all out and really commit.

Yeah, that's not a great business move considering the amount of cultural saturation these characters have and the decades of fans who rigidly hold onto the past, but you know what, letting your biggest properties who dont have a Bat on their chest rot in mediocrity is a pretty bad business move too.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I would call the New 52 a stop-gap fix. Freeing up continuity and allowing a reset of the character's allowed the writers and editors a lot of creative liberty and they were able to tell stories they couldn't before. The problem came around 2013-2014; about 20-30 issues into most characters runs. There we saw ideas start to run dry and stories started to suck just like they did in the years prior to New 52. Rudderless, is what I'd say most titles were at the time. Then we got the Marvel Now equivalent for DC, DC YOU in 2015. This after DC's plans for "Future's End" (which is New 52 equivalent of Countdown) and the integration of Earth 2, and plot lines from the surrounding arcs were dropped, and TPTB went in another direction to attract more readers. DC YOU failed, just like Marvel's All New, All Different failed, and now DC has done their "Rebirth" to get back to some semblance of the Pre-New 52 DCU.

The New 52 died because TPTB simply ran out of ideas. It had all been done before and nobody was enjoying themselves.

I just don't subscribe to that theory. A lot of the stories that were told with the New 52 were stories that had already been told before. We didn't need a new origin for Superman or Batman or any of the other characters for the umpteenth time. We didn't need to see how Superman met Brainiac for like the fourth time, either. New 52 didn't give writers creative license. It gave them a blank check to rehash old story ideas and hope readers didn't notice.

[Doctor Know]

I'd say that one of the major failings of reboots is that you can free up your continuity, but you're still limited by the perception of the characters. Just look at the mixed reaction to Superman; he was very much in line with previous versions of the character (evolving from Golden Age social crusader to Silver Age cosmic explorer to modern Age uber-hero over 19 issues) but some people freaked out because that version didn't fit what they believe Superman is.

What's the point of having a blank slate with Superman (or anyone) if all you can do is tell the same stories and/or the same kind of stories you were already telling?

The next time DC reboots (I'd rather they never do it again but we all know its only a matter of time) Id sorta like to see them really go for broke. Pull a Silver Age and put new faces and new costumes on old names. If your "new" continuity is limited because there's only so many topics and themes you can explore with Barry Allen, then get rid of Barry Allen and introduce....I dunno, Joe Smith, to the role of the Flash with a new costume and status quo.

Rebooting is basically throwing up your hands and saying "We give up, we screwed things up beyond fixing!" so if you're gonna pull a weak ass move like that you might as well go all out and really commit.

Yeah, that's not a great business move considering the amount of cultural saturation these characters have and the decades of fans who rigidly hold onto the past, but you know what, letting your biggest properties who dont have a Bat on their chest rot in mediocrity is a pretty bad business move too.

Agreed 100 and 10 percent.

I just don't subscribe to that theory. A lot of the stories that were told with the New 52 were stories that had already been told before. We didn't need a new origin for Superman or Batman or any of the other characters for the umpteenth time. We didn't need to see how Superman met Brainiac for like the fourth time, either. New 52 didn't give writers creative license. It gave them a blank check to rehash old story ideas and hope readers didn't notice.

Well that, of course. All with new art style (really in-your-face), different authors, and the words "NEW" on every single issue and TPB/HC. It was business as usual, but kicked off with new #1's for every title. Just think, Teen Titans for example was given 2 reboots during between the years of 2011 and 2016, just to get the title working. New 52 Supes went from a Golden Age + Modern Age Superman, to counter culture boxer in a cape, to a Super Doomsday, to a depowered MMA Superman, to being killed off after DC had so thoroughly broken the character, and replaced with the post-Crisis Supes. All in the span of 5 years. HOW?!

[Lightning Rider]

I wish they had just let Flashpoint play out like it was originally supposed to instead of being "hijacked" by Didio and co. I remember Johns when he first announced Flashpoint, presumably before the New 52 was a thing, where he talked about having a speed force comic spinning out of Flashpoint, it's plot featured something about Bart Allen being lost in the Speed Force.

I think I would have liked that story much better. Anyone know if Nora would be alive in that version?

[GlennSimpson]

Agreed 100 and 10 percent.



Well that, of course. All with new art style (really in-your-face), different authors, and the words "NEW" on every single issue and TPB/HC. It was business as usual, but kicked off with new #1's for every title. Just think, Teen Titans for example was given 2 reboots during between the years of 2011 and 2016, just to get the title working. New 52 Supes went from a Golden Age + Modern Age Superman, to counter culture boxer in a cape, to a Super Doomsday, to a depowered MMA Superman, to being killed off after DC had so thoroughly broken the character, and replaced with the post-Crisis Supes. All in the span of 5 years. HOW?!

One can argue that we don't "need" to see origins over and over, but it remains that origin stories are big sellers. Some have argued that origin stories are really the most interesting story you can tell.

Not to mention that we also get tons of "what you thought you knew isn't true!" stories when we have deep continuity. So "revamps" happen either way.

[KoriandrJean]

I wish they had just let Flashpoint play out like it was originally supposed to instead of being "hijacked" by Didio and co. I remember Johns when he first announced Flashpoint, presumably before the New 52 was a thing, where he talked about having a speed force comic spinning out of Flashpoint, it's plot featured something about Bart Allen being lost in the Speed Force.

Sounds like Johns decided to adapt that original story for Wally (I) instead ...

I think I would have liked that story much better. Anyone know if Nora would be alive in that version?

I agree, they never should have killed Nora off at all! Not everybody has to be Batman ...