Why is there such hatred placed against the Time Displaced O5 By Fans?

[Fildro]

I hate them. To me they are totally irrelevant and unecessary.

[jbmasta]

I hate them. To me they are totally irrelevant and unecessary.

Tell us how you really feel.

[JediKage]

Cause you can only get so many X-men Books and they are taking up roster slots.

[jbmasta]

Cause you can only get so many X-men Books and they are taking up roster slots.

At least you've got all these X-Men titles to spread the characters around in. Green Lantern fans only have two titles at the moment, with one title needing to cater for four Earth Lanterns as well as the Green Lantern Corps in general.

[WallStreeter]

I think it's jealousy. The o5 are the only teen group of X-Men that have sold in a long time. New Mutants did well in the 80s, and Generation X did well in the 90s. But post Morrison they were too many teen mutants to really track, as a result few of them got adequate development.

At least Gen X is being relaunched with a SMALL cast. I like the o5 with maybe just a couple of additions like Laura/Wolverine, Evan, and Oya.

[magnuskn]

Northstar's dominant traits are that he's super fast and can fly, or that he's a sexy, rich, egotistical jerk with a crazy sister. That he's gay hasn't even played as much a part in his stories, overall, as Spider-Man's straightness has in his.

The last I saw of Northstar in the last years was stories about his boyfriend and how much they love each other and how open they are with their gayness and how important that new boyfriend character was to Northstar. And then, after that very special episode, both were dropped like a brick from the comic pages.

Northstar, as a character with a very storied character history, deserves better. Again, I don't have any problem with gay characters, but there is a tendency to make their sexuality their dominant traits which shape their entire story arcs in a way heterosexual characters are not shaped by them.

Note, however, that seems to be more of a thing with characters who are revealed as gay long after their first appearance. Hulkling, for example, started out as a gay character and so his sexuality is just one of his character traits. With characters who are revealed as gay long into their character history, it seems like writers feel that they need to justify the character change by making it the dominant trait of the character.

Then again, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree and the Northstar marriage story I am referencing is just a really shittily written story. I think it was the same writer who did the "Iceman oopsed a genocide" story which since then has been violently shoved into the dustbin of continuity?

[Cold Water]

The last I saw of Northstar in the last years was stories about his boyfriend and how much they love each other and how open they are with their gayness and how important that new boyfriend character was to Northstar. And then, after that very special episode, both were dropped like a brick from the comic pages.

Then you obviously have not read him in Amazing X-Men.
Where, you know, he did superhero things that didn't revolve around his sexuality.

Northstar, as a character with a very storied character history, deserves better. Again, I don't have any problem with gay characters, but there is a tendency to make their sexuality their dominant traits which shape their entire story arcs in a way heterosexual characters are not shaped by them.

No. It's just that heterosexuality is normal to you, so you do not notice it.
With any character who comes out as anything but straight, it is established because, still to this day, LGBTQIA is not considered "normal" to the majority of straight society. It does not have the typical representation in our books that heterosexuality does.

Then again, maybe I am barking up the wrong tree and the Northstar marriage story I am referencing is just a really shittily written story.

No, it was a well written story, imo.
But it's not his ONLY story.
And as you mentioned, Northstar is a character with a very storied character history, so I'm not sure why you are stuck on his wedding story in Astonishing X-Men, as if that is his only story to draw your opinion of him from and judge that his gayness is all up in your face.
Jesus.

[DevilBat66]

I would be totally excited to buy a book featuring the adult versions of the O5.

I can't stand the time-displaced versions that have overstayed their welcome. My reasons echo many already made in the thread.

Marvel needs to have a nice story arc where the O5 go back and the next month, all of a sudden, Prof X, Adult Jean and Cyclops, and Logan are all back alive. Beast was never an asshole. Maybe a few more changes like Thunderbird and others never dying but pretty much everything the same just all of the good characters are still alive. THAT's how ResurreXion should have happened. imo.

[Knives]

I have nothing new to add.

Not even like stories about time travel and think the O5 is a great excuse for writers to be able to do whatever they want without having to deal with continuity .

Some also believe they prevent other young mutant heroes from gain space but now we have a new GX but the cast is not at all what most readers wanted so we can no longer use that against them.

Even so, I'll buy the first issues for a simple reason Bunn is the writer . He has managed to do a great job since he started working with the mutants and Magneto and gained my confidence so I give the title a try.

[donpricetag]

"hate" is a strong word. "Tired" maybe more accurate. The idea was interesting but it just never developed into anything that made a whole lot of sense, and then just went completely off of the rails when drastic changes started to be made to them. Most thought when time was declared "broken" during AoU that it would have been addressed (why they are still here), but it wasnt. Then when the entire universe got a reset, we thought it again be addressed, but no. Not there either. At this point it's just what it is. Marvel as a whole is less continuity and more of a collection loosely connected short stories. They were also written by Bendis for a long period of time. He tends to make teens super obnoxious. The issue where Bendis had them beating Sabretooth, Mystique and a squad of HYDRA agents and having it be brushed off as: "They are the Original 5", was corny as hell, as they was dues ex machina for a while.

They are simply unnecessary, but at the time, Fox wasn't using them or exploring them in this fashion (Young), so back then, anything drastically different from the movies was what was most used... XMA changed that, but Marvel hasn't bothered to switch gears yet. Their time has passed, no pun intended. Been passed. We have/had enough characters in the present. I don't think anyone was more interested in reviving them as a whole team more than seeing just Jean come back to life. I'd without a second thought like to read the present O5 cross differences, life, death, and eternity to reunite.

[tetragene]

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't like any version of the O5.

I think its just a very boring line-up. They were so boring that the X-Men book was "cancelled" and existed off of reprinting previous issues for the next 5 years until they brought on far more interesting characters in Giant-Size. Likewise, X-Factor improved when the O5 were replaced with Havok, Polaris, Wolfsbane, etc. Most of the O5 are fine on their own or mixed in with a different team of characters. But as their own team? Yawn.

And I think Jean is awful in almost any incarnation. Madelyn though.... I liked her.

The O5 & Inhumans are the "fetch" of the Marvel Universe.

[magnuskn]

Then you obviously have not read him in Amazing X-Men.
Where, you know, he did superhero things that didn't revolve around his sexuality.

No. It's just that heterosexuality is normal to you, so you do not notice it.
With any character who comes out as anything but straight, it is established because, still to this day, LGBTQIA is not considered "normal" to the majority of straight society. It does not have the typical representation in our books that heterosexuality does.

No, it was a well written story, imo.
But it's not his ONLY story.
And as you mentioned, Northstar is a character with a very storied character history, so I'm not sure why you are stuck on his wedding story in Astonishing X-Men, as if that is his only story to draw your opinion of him from and judge that his gayness is all up in your face.
Jesus.

Quite honestly, I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about homosexuality. I have my views on how a sudden character change from having one type of sexuality to another changes how writers handle those characters, you have another. Let's agree to disagree. And don't get so overwrought in your responses, as if you barely can handle anybody having a different viewpoint than you, please.

[MYCMTSC]

Yeah, I think X-Men Season One is the only time I've liked the O5 as a group. Individually, I've never really gotten into Warren, had a very mild interest in Iceman, and have begun to hate Beast.

I think the original X-Factor run had a bunch of cool ideas, but I don't find the O5 to be integral to what I liked about it.

Also I just don't like New-52 versions of characters or time-displaced anomalies (Rachel being an occasional exception). Sometimes I feel like comics are in a race to out-mess their last idea, which is strange seeing as how Marvel simultaneously is trying to make each (brief) run as accessible to new readers as possible, even to the detriment of ongoing arcs.

[Anduinel]

Quite honestly, I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about homosexuality. I have my views on how a sudden character change from having one type of sexuality to another changes how writers handle those characters, you have another. Let's agree to disagree. And don't get so overwrought in your responses, as if you barely can handle anybody having a different viewpoint than you, please.

It wasn't a sudden change, nor was it coincidence that Northstar was Marvel's first out superhero. Byrne and Mantlo laid the foundation for Northstar's homosexuality almost a decade before Lobdell was allowed to confirm it. That's not just how people read the character a la Iceman; there are multiple print interviews going back to the 80's confirming the intentions of all three writers. Some writers since have handled it better than others, and editors having a "tell, don't show" policy with regard to gay characters for the longest time didn't help, but it's not something that came out of nowhere.

So far as the time-displaced 05 go, they've been treading water for so long that I think my interest would have waned even if I'd been more curious about them initially. As much as I understand Jean's motivations intellectually, the upshot seems to be that she's resisting the most interesting thing that ever happened to the character. Beast is as arrogant as his older self and I don't need to see that trainwreck twice. My interest in little Cyke died as soon as Rucka stepped away from the character. Angel is still boring and he's trying to drag Laura down with him. Iceman at least has a shot at being a happier, less repressed version of himself, but I'm far more interested in seeing that happen with adult Bobby.

I don't hate them. I really just had little interest in them to start, and the choices made by various writers so far haven't done anything to make them more interesting than their adult counterparts.

[t hedge coke]

Cause you can only get so many X-men Books and they are taking up roster slots.

This is one of those things some fans seem to think really happens, that basically never actually happens. Team books are not occupied by a rotation that gets held up if some character stays in a book too long.

The last I saw of Northstar in the last years was stories about his boyfriend and how much they love each other and how open they are with their gayness and how important that new boyfriend character was to Northstar. And then, after that very special episode, both were dropped like a brick from the comic pages.

Uh huh.

Aaaaaand, every story with the X-Men from the last forty years probably also has a couple in it. A new couple. An old couple. A third wheel on the side pining.

It's the X-Men. They hook up.

If an X-story involving a couple being a couple bothers you...