Was It The Right Decision To Make America?

[C_Miller]

But he was talking about atrocities committed by ancient cultures.

[Diamond]

I guess what I'm trying to say is we could have broken from the yoke of British rule and instead of repeating their mistakes, made good choices instead. Like not having African slaves, not enslaving American Indians, stealing their lands or forcing them onto reservations, killing thousands of them along the way.

This nation could have made better choices and failed to do so.

But how could they have if that's how everybody thought that time? It's seems a, so to say, "unfair" evaluation.

[mojotastic]

"Ancient." Dude, it was a few hundred years ago. The United States was not founded in "ancient" history.

The genocide committed by the US is one of the largest in human history and one of the most thorough. We do know that. We do have records on that.

Genocide is genocide no matter the time, a genocide comitted 1000 years carries the same weight as one comitted 500 years what change is how people from that culture today perceive or how well documented it is so people about it.

[TakoM]

But has this been a good thing for the world as a whole?

If you would have asked about American naitives the answer would be a clear NOOOO.
The problem with America and other nation is that nearly every war of the US began with a lie or holdback information or not used in the right way, so instead going for a peaceful or swift solution a lot of people had to experience a bloody war with the US.

There were cases where the US was very 'usefull' but this is really hard to measure.

[The Whovian]

But how could they have if that's how everybody thought that time? It's seems a, so to say, "unfair" evaluation.

That's the point. They should have been better that what they were. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[ouroboros]

"Ancient." Dude, it was a few hundred years ago. The United States was not founded in "ancient" history.

The genocide committed by the US is one of the largest in human history and one of the most thorough. We do know that. We do have records on that.

I believe you've missed my point. I'm saying that the only reason the U.S.'s record on genocide and slavery is a known quantity is because the country came into being in a time when history was minutely recorded.

Most ancient countries, from Egypt to Israel to China, maintained no records regarding slavery, and we don't know who killed who to gain possession of their lands. Israel's conquest of Canaan may be a religious myth, or it may be a partial recording of a genocide as extreme as what happened to the American Indian. Thus, in response to your comment that you don't think many countries have records as bad as that of the US, I'm making the point that it's extremely difficult to know what the older countries did or didn't do-- unless you're going to focus on "outlier" tribes like the Bushmen and the Esquimaux,

[mojotastic]

That's the point. They should have been better that what they were.

But how should they have known better?

[The Whovian]

But how should they have known better?

You don't think they knew that slavery and murder is wrong? They just chose not to do anything about it.

[Diamond]

You don't think they knew that slavery and murder is wrong? They just chose not to do anything about it.

Well, the Greeks believed that women were inferior to men because that's how nature made them. And that slavery was OK because some people were not prepared for the burden of free will.

We've found lots of ways of rationalizing discrimination in the course of human history.

I get your frustration, but my point remains.

[mojotastic]

You don't think they knew that slavery and murder is wrong? They just chose not to do anything about it.

Americans used to be very religious, so they used some of the text of the bible to defend their right for slavery, i have seen your in the "are you reading the bible thread", I am no trying to offend you or anything, but do you think that would be a reason for why they didnt see slavery as wrong? because their faith gave them a pass.

[Gray Lensman]

I am going to bring up the original point - the question about whether or not American Independence was a good thing. And to answer that we need to remember what the British Empire was capable of, since a non-independent United States would have remained part of it. History shows that the British Empire was able to be just as brutal as her former colonies.

[Cold Water]

Americans used to be very religious, so they used some of the text of the bible to defend their right for slavery, i have seen your in the "are you reading the bible thread", I am no trying to offend you or anything, but do you think that would be a reason for why they didnt see slavery as wrong? because their faith gave them a pass.

It was not just slavery they used religion to excuse. It was the genocide as well.
Hence, why we ended up with boarding schools for Native American children.
The White European Christians who had the power over here, knew that it would be too costly to actually remove the Native Americans, completely, via war, and they knew adults were set in their ways, so they set up the boarding schools because children were easier to indoctrinate.
They just made everything else illegal for Native Americans, like practicing their culture until the late 1970s.

[Ite]

Yes it was the right decision America is the greatest nation in the world.

[The Whovian]

Well, the Greeks believed that women were inferior to men because that's how nature made them. And that slavery was OK because some people were not prepared for the burden of free will.

We've found lots of ways of rationalizing discrimination in the course of human history.

I get your frustration, but my point remains.

Except we're not talking about the Greeks. We're talking about our nation and the founders.

[The Whovian]

Americans used to be very religious, so they used some of the text of the bible to defend their right for slavery, i have seen your in the "are you reading the bible thread", I am no trying to offend you or anything, but do you think that would be a reason for why they didnt see slavery as wrong? because their faith gave them a pass.

I don't want this to break off topic and turn into a religious thread, but the bible does not say slavery is okay.