Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 59 of 59
  1. #46
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    11,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Saw you also read Strange Adventures. Loved the depiction of Mr. Terrific there. Think he might be a good character that creative team could churn in some good work on.

    King tends to craft intriguing stories with characters that have less continuity baggage.

    But I digress...
    100% about Mr. Terrific being awesome in Strange Adventures. Really felt like the Michael I fell in love with here in Checkmate. I hope this will be more the characterization we see of Michael in the future - The Terrifics isn't too bad, but it feels mostly like "grumpy guy" rather than the sheer brilliance and moral power that Michael brought to Checkmate and appears to be bringing to Strange Adventures.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Seriously?

    This is an Appreciation thread.
    So if this were Batgirl/Cassandra Cain thread, I wouldn't/shouldn't say anything negative bout her OYL depiction?

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    So if this were Batgirl/Cassandra Cain thread, I wouldn't/shouldn't say anything negative bout her OYL depiction?
    As long as you guys don't start to load up your Checkmate drawings and bring on the shipping... I'm fine.

  4. #49
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    11,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    So if this were Batgirl/Cassandra Cain thread, I wouldn't/shouldn't say anything negative bout her OYL depiction?
    You had nothing positive to say about any version of Checkmate.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Fair enough. Will try and address a couple of things from what I remember.

    1. On Kobra, Checkmate wasn't about the "bad guys" but instead, was primarily about the politics, underhandedness, the (pardon the pun) chess game amonst the organization. Kobra was just a framing device for the storytelling. I think not realizing/appreciating this already puts you on the back foot when it comes to the level of enjoyment of the series. .
    The problem there, IMO, is that frankly the politics weren’t that well executed. It was less a game of chess than it was ‘Everyone vs. Waller (and to a lesser extent, the US)’. I mean, she couldn’t organize a Suicide Squad mission to rescue a helpless meta-human kid without the narrative throwing shade.

    As for Kobra as a framing devise, that was an especially poor choice. Cobra from GI Joe is better developed. It always felt like they were being used as an inoffensive substitute to Islamic extremism, which when all you have is zealots, is pretty boring. No matter how Rucka tried to play them up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    2. Fire gave up her father and was no longer in debt to Waller. Recall she was Black Kings Knight being forced to go against orders having been manipulated by White Queen (arguably the last person who should be influencing the Black Kings Knight). Her giving up her father was the resolution of that particular subplot. .
    Fire was never in debt to Waller. She was being blackmailed, there’s a difference.

    With the spy genre, there needs to be some forethought and stronger internal logic than your average superhero story.

    Fire killed a man on Waller’s orders. But once she gave up her dad, that was forgotten. Poor plotting, IMO which sadly went through the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    3. Blackmailing Waller, again that was resolution of a subplot i.e. getting her ousted from her position as White Queen/ member of Checkmate. They didn't "do something about the threat" because Waller complied. .
    Reread the chapter. They give Waller 24 hours before threatening to blow the lid on the whole exiling criminals to another planet…and nothing happens.

    I understand that, given the nature of shared canon and crossovers, its hard to resolve plots neatly, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    You say "dumping on Waller". I can't help but read this as the main reason you didn't like the series i.e. Waller is a character you like and your intepretation of them dumping on her contributed to the "non-enjoyment"? (Of course I may be wrong... .
    It was a part of it, no doubt.

    But to boil it down, I just really disliked the lack of moral ambiguity, which is ironic s t the time, the straight super heroes series were all awash in it.

    But the spy genre demands it, and Rucka’s Checkmate never delivered. They had some great characters, yes. That’s why I kept reading until the Salvation Run tie in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Ironically I think the series was one of the strongest characterizations of Waller showcasing how much of a badass she is and how she operates. The Suicide Squad series around the same time was another example.
    I thought it was far and away the worst depiction of Waller until the live action versions came round (one wanting to nuke a city because of a few superstrong bruisers, and the other killing gents to protect her career.)

    Waller in Checkmate sold out teams in the field to cover her own ass, she made toothless threats like ‘revealing’ the perfectly acceptable relationship between Sasha and Mr. T and for some reason has OMC nanities. and Vertigo as her knight? I can’t think of anyone wimpier from the SS than him.

    Waller in Checkmate was cartoonishly evil and rely competent. #NOTMYWALL

    Don’t get me wrong, it had great potential. But I think it was squandered by playing Checkmate largely with black and white morality and not enough focus on their plotting. My fingers are crossed for the future, but Bendis...

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    You had nothing positive to say about any version of Checkmate.
    No one was talking bout the original, just asking for opinions on the Rucka, so I gave mine

  7. #52
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    11,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    No one was talking bout the original, just asking for opinions on the Rucka, so I gave mine
    This is a Checkmate appreciation thread. If you post, you are expected to post at least ONE element of appreciation of at least one version of the subject of the thread instead of a long list of negativity.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,763

    Default

    When I read Checkmate in 2007/2008 Rucka was one of the best writers working for DC/Marvel and while every writers work is flawed I'd never wish for a different writer. Kobra being boring? I never liked those guys that's why I don't mind them being boring. Not a fan of Jesus Saiz I'll admit. My hopes for Grayson as a spy title were that Grayson is as interesting as Checkmate when it comes to politics/espionage... which it wasn't

  9. #54
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    375

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    The problem there, IMO, is that frankly the politics weren’t that well executed. It was less a game of chess than it was ‘Everyone vs. Waller (and to a lesser extent, the US)’. I mean, she couldn’t organize a Suicide Squad mission to rescue a helpless meta-human kid without the narrative throwing shade.

    Guess this is down to your personal preference/ interest levels in terms of well executed. Nothing that can really be done about that. Guess that plus your bias to Waller could not have resorted to any other conclusion than your dislike.

    As for Kobra as a framing devise, that was an especially poor choice. Cobra from GI Joe is better developed. It always felt like they were being used as an inoffensive substitute to Islamic extremism, which when all you have is zealots, is pretty boring. No matter how Rucka tried to play them up. My point was really more about the fact that if there was no "bad guy"/ wider story (i.e. only the internal politics), it would have been less interesting (my opinion of course).



    Fire was never in debt to Waller. She was being blackmailed, there’s a difference. Sorry you're right. She was being blackmailed and there is a difference. Doesn't change my point though.

    With the spy genre, there needs to be some forethought and stronger internal logic than your average superhero story. True. But I for one will not call Ruckas Checkmate a superhero story in the slightest.

    Fire killed a man on Waller’s orders. But once she gave up her dad, that was forgotten. Poor plotting, IMO which sadly went through the series. Well she was arrested and was facing jail time etc before Khalid talked her into giving up her dad to avoid her fate. Seems like you're looking at the sequence of events wrong which is leading to your conclusion of "it was forgotten".



    Reread the chapter. They give Waller 24 hours before threatening to blow the lid on the whole exiling criminals to another planet…and nothing happens. I am going to fish it out and scan through. I'm almost certain it was a case of they blow the lid unless she resigns within 24 hours... which she did.

    I understand that, given the nature of shared canon and crossovers, its hard to resolve plots neatly, but still.



    It was a part of it, no doubt.

    But to boil it down, I just really disliked the lack of moral ambiguity, which is ironic s t the time, the straight super heroes series were all awash in it.

    But the spy genre demands it, and Rucka’s Checkmate never delivered. They had some great characters, yes. That’s why I kept reading until the Salvation Run tie in.



    I thought it was far and away the worst depiction of Waller until the live action versions came round (one wanting to nuke a city because of a few superstrong bruisers, and the other killing gents to protect her career.)

    Waller in Checkmate sold out teams in the field to cover her own ass, she made toothless threats like ‘revealing’ the perfectly acceptable relationship between Sasha and Mr. T and for some reason has OMC nanities. and Vertigo as her knight? I can’t think of anyone wimpier from the SS than him.

    Waller in Checkmate was cartoonishly evil and rely competent. #NOTMYWALL

    Don’t get me wrong, it had great potential. But I think it was squandered by playing Checkmate largely with black and white morality and not enough focus on their plotting. My fingers are crossed for the future, but Bendis...

    Ok so I never bothered to learn how to do the quotes etc in the replies so Imma just highlight in red. Hope it works... ^^

    As a general comment, think most of your dislike for it is based on personal preference as against it being a "bad" book.
    Last edited by Mr. White; 06-24-2020 at 10:58 AM.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Ok so I never bothered to learn how to do the quotes etc in the replies so Imma just highlight in red. Hope it works... ^^

    As a general comment, think most of your dislike for it is based on personal preference as against it being a "bad" book.
    Well, yeah

    Few things though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Well she was arrested and was facing jail time etc before Khalid talked her into giving up her dad to avoid her fate. Seems like you're looking at the sequence of events wrong which is leading to your conclusion of "it was forgotten".
    The problem though is that Fire gave up her father, to get out from under Waller's thumb. Giving up her father is meaningless though, because he didn't make her kill the Colonel. Waller did.

    Fire was being blackmailed, and she gave up the leverage to get out from under that. The first logical question they should have asked, and is 'Who was blackmailing you?'. With no reason to protect her, and every reason to hate her, Fire should have burned Waller instantly (forgive the pun )

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    But I for one will not call Ruckas Checkmate a superhero story in the slightest.
    I would, and that was why I was so disappointed by it. The bad guys are clear (Waller and Kobra), and so are the heroes. The plotting was pretty basic. I know Batman showed up in issue 25 to imply that Checkmate might do something bad to the snake babies, but based on all their actions prior, what would that have been?

    But to each their own

  11. #56
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    23,445

    Default

    DC's Event Leviathan: Checkmate by Bendis and Maleev postponed indefinitely

    DC has indefinitely postponed Brian Michael Bendis and Alex Maleev's upcoming Event Leviathan: Checkmate six-issue limited series, promising in its most recent retailer mailer that it will be "rescheduled to align with upcoming DC Universe storylines."...
    The series was announced in January with a planned April 22 on-sale date. However, DC canceled that release date when the Direct Market comic book industry went on pause due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. Event Leviathan: Checkmate was then rescheduled for a June 2 release – though that date came and went without the issue's release, which seemed to go largely unnoticed until DC's update of its postponement.

    The original announcement of Event Leviathan: Checkmate revealed only the limited series' creative team and issue count, tying into the cryptic nature of the original series, which focused on a team of detectives organized by Lois Lane – a key player in the relaunching Checkmate – trying to solve the mystery of the identity of the leader of secret spy organization Leviathan (also conveniently named Leviathan).
    https://www.gamesradar.com/dcs-event...-indefinitely/

  12. #57
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    11,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    DC's Event Leviathan: Checkmate by Bendis and Maleev postponed indefinitely
    https://www.gamesradar.com/dcs-event...-indefinitely/
    Just saw that. I have to say, I'm not SUPER disappointed, as the Checkmate stuff Bendis did in the Leviathan postscript issue was very odd, but it is a bummer that it and Manhunter are both canned.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

  13. #58
    Mighty Member JLH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,057

    Default

    I've found the entire Leviathan storyline to be very underwhelming but was looking forward to Andreyko's return to Manhunter and was interested enough in the Checkmate series to pick it up. It seems like this "event" was getting lost amid all of the other events though--from Year of the Villain/Perpetua/Dark Multiverse/Death Metal to the stuff going on in the Batman and even Superman titles. Hopefully the Leviathan related series can be fit into a publishing slot where they have a chance to stand out a bit more. And fingers crossed Checkmate stands out enough to get another shot at an ongoing. It's a great concept and I was a big fan of the original series and most of the second series.

  14. #59
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    11,623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JLH View Post
    I've found the entire Leviathan storyline to be very underwhelming but was looking forward to Andreyko's return to Manhunter and was interested enough in the Checkmate series to pick it up. It seems like this "event" was getting lost amid all of the other events though--from Year of the Villain/Perpetua/Dark Multiverse/Death Metal to the stuff going on in the Batman and even Superman titles. Hopefully the Leviathan related series can be fit into a publishing slot where they have a chance to stand out a bit more. And fingers crossed Checkmate stands out enough to get another shot at an ongoing. It's a great concept and I was a big fan of the original series and most of the second series.
    I'd definitely like them to think of Checkmate as if it were a brand similar to Birds of Prey or Suicide Squad, though given how they've treated Birds of Prey, that might be a double edged sword.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •