Does Kingdom Come SUperman have a common History With Post-Crisis?

[suemorphplus209]

I have only recently seen Kingdom Come, but I have heard some people say that he is essentially the same as Post-Crisis Superman/Superdad? What do people base these assumptions on?

[DieHard200904]

Well, within Kingdom Come itself, there are Easter Eggs that reference The Death and Return of Superman. One is the fact that within the Fortress of Solitude in Kingdom Come, you see the mech suit that Superman was piloting before Steel struck it with the hammer and Superman ejected out. The other is when he is walking in the Diner and feels uncomfortable seeing the mullet Superman, which could be argued to be that it reminds him of his past death. Again, these are probably just Easter Eggs in Kingdom Come for fans, or they are actually indicative of his actual history having similarities. There are also contrasts though, such as Earth-22 Superman having a fortress under Antarctica as opposed to having one in the Arctic. My personal interpretation is that his history is different, and Mark Waid/Alex Ross put the references to other Superman works in there for fans to get a kick out of them. But anyone else can be free to interpret this as being otherwise.

[BeefBourguignon]

His Fortress of Solitude had Kryptonian warsuit, Kelex-looking robot, and same Jor-El and Lara statue from Post-Crisis.

[bat39]

Insofar as Kingdom Come was intended to be a 'possible future' for the then-contemporary DCU, then yeah, he pretty much is the future Post-COIE Superman (with the Byrne origin).

What I'm more curious about if whether or not DKR Batman shared a history with the Golden Age/Silver Age Batman, the Bronze Age Batman or the then-nascent Modern Age Batman - and whether Year One was intended specifically as a prequel to DKR.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Yes, for all the reasons mentioned, but he also had a bunch of different versions of Kryptonite and fought classic Brainiac and Mxyzptlk, and a flashback to his prime shows him in the Golden Age. I think he's supposed to be read as an amalgam of Supermen, a generalized idea of 'classic' Superman in the same way as All-Star.

[Carabas]

I have only recently seen Kingdom Come, but I have heard some people say that he is essentially the same as Post-Crisis Superman/Superdad? What do people base these assumptions on?

They base it on wishful thinking?

He's not Superdad.
Kingdome Come was originally an Elseworlds story, and later on it became Earth-22.

Yes, for all the reasons mentioned, but he also had a bunch of different versions of Kryptonite and fought classic Brainiac and Mxyzptlk, and a flashback to his prime shows him in the Golden Age. I think he's supposed to be read as an amalgam of Supermen, a generalized idea of 'classic' Superman in the same way as All-Star.

He is an amalgamated Superman, just like All-Star Superman was.
KC Superman being shown in the golden age in a flashback utterly disqualifies him from being post-Crisis Superman, because Golden Age Superman is a seperate character.

[DieHard200904]

They base it on wishful thinking?

He's not Superdad.
Kingdome Come was originally an Elseworlds story, and later on it became Earth-22.


He is an amalgamated Superman, just like All-Star Superman was.
KC Superman being shown in the golden age in a flashback utterly disqualifies him from being post-Crisis Superman, because Golden Age Superman is a seperate character.

He also had only Power Girl in his universe. And in the JSA arc, he gave a WTF reaction to the death of the Golden Age when he saw that that version was dead.

[Jim Kelly]

When I read KiNGDOM COME (as it came out in single issues), I took it for an Elseworlds (that's how it was sold). But I had the feeling that it was harkening back to an earlier age of comics, while at the same time casting a jaundiced eye on the future. Although, truth to tell, I wasn't that interested in the story and didn't give it a deep reading. I missed a lot of the extraneous details that people keep pointing out--yet I've never gone back to read it again, to look for all those details.

So I read Superman and other characters as having elements of pre-Crisis incarnations.

However, the fan reaction was such that it was taken to be the future of the current DCU. People looked past the Elseworlds label and wanted this to be the future of the DCU. Much like how Miller's Dark Knight Returns world (which is clearly not supposed to be in continuity) was for a long time viewed as Batman's future by many fans.

[DieHard200904]

When I read KiNGDOM COME (as it came out in single issues), I took it for an Elseworlds (that's how it was sold). But I had the feeling that it was harkening back to an earlier age of comics, while at the same time casting a jaundiced eye on the future. Although, truth to tell, I wasn't that interested in the story and didn't give it a deep reading. I missed a lot of the extraneous details that people keep pointing out--yet I've never gone back to read it again, to look for all those details.

So I read Superman and other characters as having elements of pre-Crisis incarnations.

However, the fan reaction was such that it was taken to be the future of the current DCU. People looked past the Elseworlds label and wanted this to be the future of the DCU. Much like how Miller's Dark Knight Returns world (which is clearly not supposed to be in continuity) was for a long time viewed as Batman's future by many fans.

It stopped being the future of the DCU in The Kingdom (1999), the sequel to Kingdom Come, because the Trinity from Kingdom Come joined with the main DCU Trinity, intervened, and prevented Gog from causing the tragedy in the first place, so that the tragdey of the mass murder in Metropolis and the explosion of Kansas did not happen, and Kingdom Come became its own universe officially, it was separate without a doubt by that point.

[Jim Kelly]

Yet in a way THE KINGDOM gave credence to the fan belief that it was a possible future for the mainstream DCU--a future that didn't happen because of Hypertime but a future nevertheless. Which sort of undermined the belief of readers like me that it was never a possible future and just an Elseworlds.

Of course, Mark Waid's KINGDOM was itself subverted when DC pretty much ignored it and everything it stood for. I was excited by the conclusion of THE KINGDOM, because I thought it meant we were getting the Multiverse back and everything was back in continuity again. I remember it was a new year when I read that and I looked at the future like it was full of possibility. But nobdoy seemed to get behind what Mark Waid was selling. It was a crushing disappointment to see that happen.

[DieHard200904]

Yet in a way THE KINGDOM gave credence to the fan belief that it was a possible future for the mainstream DCU--a future that didn't happen because of Hypertime but a future nevertheless. Which sort of undermined the belief of readers like me that it was never a possible future and just an Elseworlds.

Of course, Mark Waid's KINGDOM was itself subverted when DC pretty much ignored it and everything it stood for. I was excited by the conclusion of THE KINGDOM, because I thought it meant we were getting the Multiverse back and everything was back in continuity again. I remember it was a new year when I read that and I looked at the future like it was full of possibility. But nobdoy seemed to get behind what Mark Waid was selling. It was a crushing disappointment to see that happen.

Quite true. Quite true.

[manofsteel1979]

Hypertime....what a waste of a good concept that could have literally fixed most of DC's continuity issues.

In spite of the Post Crisis easter eggs, I always saw the Superman there an amalgam of Pre and Post Crisis, with the later having less influence.I have a feeling the Post Crisis easter eggs was Ross and Waid acquiescing to the people in charge at DC at the time who insisted on pretending Pre Crisis Supes never happened. So they likely stuck those easter eggs to be able to say " hey see, it's an older Post Crisis Superman". Waid and Ross, had they had their way, likely would not have added those as both of them are well known in their distain for the Byrne version of the origin.

[DochaDocha]

My interpretation of The Kingdom was that KC Supes could've been Post-Crisis Supes, but KC Supes warned the "modern day" Supes in a manner that in a one-universe existence, KC Supes would've been wiped from reality (see Back to the Future). But, due to the Hypertime concept, they could both exist.

My two cents, anyway...

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

Although an elseworlds story, I just always assumed the post crisis similarities were there to show that this universe was very similar to the modern DCU

Yet in a way THE KINGDOM gave credence to the fan belief that it was a possible future for the mainstream DCU--a future that didn't happen because of Hypertime but a future nevertheless. Which sort of undermined the belief of readers like me that it was never a possible future and just an Elseworlds.

Of course, Mark Waid's KINGDOM was itself subverted when DC pretty much ignored it and everything it stood for. I was excited by the conclusion of THE KINGDOM, because I thought it meant we were getting the Multiverse back and everything was back in continuity again. I remember it was a new year when I read that and I looked at the future like it was full of possibility. But nobdoy seemed to get behind what Mark Waid was selling. It was a crushing disappointment to see that happen.

yeah I imagine it was, good thing I was a little kid then and was spared the disappointment. I started reading DC seriously a few years before Infinite Crisis, and i was glad to see the multiverse return and remember thinking, man I'm glad I didn't have to wait 20 years for this lol.

[adkal]

Well, within Kingdom Come itself, there are Easter Eggs that reference The Death and Return of Superman. One is the fact that within the Fortress of Solitude in Kingdom Come, you see the mech suit that Superman was piloting before Steel struck it with the hammer and Superman ejected out. The other is when he is walking in the Diner and feels uncomfortable seeing the mullet Superman, which could be argued to be that it reminds him of his past death.

He had the mullet when Joker was killed and during Magog's trial. He also has it when Diana goes to see him years later.

Again, these are probably just Easter Eggs in Kingdom Come for fans, or they are actually indicative of his actual history having similarities. There are also contrasts though, such as Earth-22 Superman having a fortress under Antarctica as opposed to having one in the Arctic.

Bryne-Supes' first fortress was in Antarctica, and it's also from where the mech-suit makes its journey to Metropolis.

(KC-Supes finds the soil there to be nutrient rich and so uses it for farming)

They base it on wishful thinking?

He's not Superdad.
Kingdome Come was originally an Elseworlds story, and later on it became Earth-22.

Pretty sure it was originally marketed as an 'Elseworlds' of the then-current DCU, but with nods to the Golden Age (which Ross favoured), hence the references to (and use of) the original Sandman etc

He is an amalgamated Superman, just like All-Star Superman was.
KC Superman being shown in the golden age in a flashback utterly disqualifies him from being post-Crisis Superman, because Golden Age Superman is a seperate character.

The panel depicting the covers from Action and Detective? They're not really 'golden age flashbacks', though.

He also had only Power Girl in his universe.

Kara and Kon were in the future with the Legion. They went there after Superman retired.