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  1. #46
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Yeah, Superman lost his temper. But, unlike Nuperman, at least Pre-FP Superman had at least some reason behind losing his temper, even if it wasn't the most well-founded. Seeing someone who has been your sworn enemy for years taking up your symbol and claiming it as their own would be enough to send anyone into a rage. The first issue of New 52 JL, however, is not that. Superman had no reason to attack GL other than he was a warm body in the midst of a crisis. At best, Nuperman just assumes that GL and Batman are part of the invasion force without any evidence, showing that he never thought through his actions. At worst, it shows that his M.O. was punch first, ask questions later.
    They both had reason to lose their temper. You're just too biased to acknowledge it. I'm not immune to it either. So was I at the time I read that first Action Rebirth issue. I was still upset about the changes, I was in no position to be rational about it. But I can admit that now. In the end, its just as reasonable to have an attack on your city make a Superman rage-filled. And that's what he thought was going on. He was incorrect, Batman and GL weren't connected to the threat, but that's what he thought at the time and for justifiable enough reasons (and its worth pointing out that Batman GL were just as incorrect as he, they were only there because they thought SUPERMAN was involved. It was one giant misunderstanding). Just like Rebirth Superman was incorrect that this Lex was using the symbol for terror.

    Fact is, VERY often Superman's M.O. is to punch first and ask questions later, depending on the situation. All Supermen. Including the pre-FP model. Their "punch first" just never is permanently damaging so he can get away with it. He knows how to control his force.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 02-04-2017 at 02:30 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    He had encountered people, but not necessarily any wearing costumes who were good guys. Nobody is saying he thought they were parademons, but they could have been the guys in charge. One of them was dressed like a BAT for God's sake. Batman is SUPPOSED TO BE SCARY.
    I can think of multiple scenarios in which he defuses the situation without resorting to "punch first, ask questions later" M.O. (1) He uses his super-hearing to listen into their conversation and deduce that they aren't there to harm him. (2) He uses his x-ray vision to peek underneath Batman's cowl and see that its Bruce Wayne (a celebrity playboy) under there. (3) He uses his X-ray vision to peek at their physiology and see that they're humans. (4) He just comes out of the shadows and asks them who they are because he's Superman, he's near invulnerable and can defend himself if they do attack him.

    And Dad Superman certainly has reasons to be suspicious of Luthor. None of which justify laying hands on him.
    Besides him just being a mass murderer and a general wolf-in-sheep's-clothing and Superman having years of experience dealing with him in that regard?

    And no, Nuperman couldn't do that. Because that's not what a young brash Superman does.
    If by "young and brash" you mean "irresponsible and apathetic of the damage he'd cause" then yes.

    And that brash cool Superman went away long before the sales dipped - it was more like pressure from fans to make him more like Dad Superman that led to his demise.
    So, by your logic, it was DC giving the fans what they wanted that led to his sales dipping? If DC gave fans what they wanted to see, wouldn't Nuperman's sales go up?

    And in what ways did they make him more like Pre-FP Superman? When they paired him up with Wonder Woman and not Lois? When they stripped away his powers and revealed his identity to the world? When they made his historic enemy into his Justice League teammate? When they dragged him from one pointless crossover to the next?

    What led to Superman's demise is the same thing that led to the New 52's demise: fans got fed up with DC's experiment and missed the baby that they threw out with the bathwater in the New 52.

    If you are going to insist that a young brash Superman doing something impulsive makes less sense than an older experienced Superman, then there's no sense in bothering to discuss, your logic makes no sense.
    In one scenario, he attacks without any knowledge or forethought. In the other, he knows all to well who Luthor is and what he's done. He may have been ultimately wrong to attack him (for now, at least), but that's the thing: at least this Superman would admit he's wrong. And he later protected Luthor against people who were trying to kill him for actions he MIGHT take. If you confronted the "young and brash" Nuperman about his reckless actions, he'd answer you with a "so what?".

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Before Flashpoint, Superman wouldn't have attacked Green Lantern and Batman on sight before even trying to talk to them once they landed in Metropolis. After Flashpoint, he was apparently a guy who did exactly that.
    Ah, this must refer to what I call the Super Jock Douche Bag (borrowing from Eddie Furlong's JOHN CONNOR from T2) from Justice League Origins. That was part of what put me off the relaunch because Superman was . . . immature(?) and Wonder Woman was written as a psychotic terrorizing civvies with her sword.

    But did Superman have a different interpretation in each of his titles? My exposure was limited to the League books (well while he was in them--there was this bizarre time where the Leaguers were not in the League titles and then when they came back the writer was more interested in Lex freaking Luthor) and the Superman/Wonder Woman title (which went bananas after Soule departed and the last arc was like a bad CW show)

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    It's not Superman's fault that Geoff Johns is a crappy writer.

    New 52 Superman had its flaws but at least it didn't have stuff like Grounded and a million Kryptonians popping all over the damn place. The marriage wasn't a big deal because hey they could just have Superman and Lois get married again if they needed that. It's not like it was handled very well pre-Flashpoint. If they had not let writers like Jeph Loeb shoehorn every single Silver Age idea they could think of back onto Superman maybe he wouldn't have been in such bad shape by 2010.
    Instead New 52 Superman had things like Doomed, Truth, evil Superman story per year and a billion children of Vandal Savage running around back to back.I'll take New Krypton and even Grounded over that, atleast I know that those stories had editor and writer problems. If they hadn't gutted the mythology like they did in the New 52 maybe that Superman would actually be alive

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