Dragon Ball GT or Dragon Ball Super

[TheCape]

Between Dragon Ball sequels, What series did you prefer as the better continuation GT or Super. Which anime had better writing for the Sagas.

Super, the ideas don't always land as well as they should (looking at you Black Goku saga), but every saga has quality and it feels like a good continuation of DBZ. Besides those episodes and generally a better use of supporting characthers give then a huge advantage over GT.

GT for another side, has one good idea and then it dropped the ball halfway into it (the Baby Saga).

[Sacred Knight]

GT can't hold Super's jock. Its not perfect, but its a passable sequel to the original and Z that GT never managed to be. In fact the main appeal of it to me is that it continues off from Z but manages to tonally be more reminiscent of its original series roots. GT though, it always felt like an alternate reality from the very start, well before it was confirmed out of canon. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but at the same time it lacked anengaging storyline, except for very early on, and completely lacked any really intriguing new characters. Super has created fun new characters and has helped make some older characters at the very least somewhat relevant again. All within some intriguing new concepts to the mythos like the multiverse.

As for the complaints about Goku's characterization, I'll never understand it. He's portrayed the exact same way he always was. No smarter, and certainly no dumber. He's the same naïve man-child he's always been who only shows of a mature and serious side when the stakes are really high, and only really gets angry when someone he loves is threatened/hurt/killed.

[Cyke]

As for the complaints about Goku's characterization, I'll never understand it. He's portrayed the exact same way he always was. No smarter, and certainly no dumber. He's the same naïve man-child he's always been who only shows of a mature and serious side when the stakes are really high, and only really gets angry when someone he loves is threatened/hurt/killed.

I like Goku enough as the main protagonist, but I suppose this is one reason why I've grown to like the other characters more than him as time goes on. Almost all the other important characters have grown and changed a lot in their own ways while still keeping their key traits (i.e. Vegeta is 1000x way more paternal now than he ever was in the Android Saga, but he's still the hot-headed arrogant jerk from the start). After 20-30 years of growth, it's great to see those characters grow logically along with the audience, but the only one who really hasn't is Goku. And so, sometimes it gets tiring seeing Goku go over the same patterns he has in saga after saga, and sometimes (oftentimes) he has to lose the final battles so that don't get *too* complacent with him.

I love my thirty-year old franchises, don't get me wrong. But if the main character is the same person from day 1 to the present without much lasting effect to him, they start to get a bit bland. Surface level changes happen but they ned to add something. A major life milestone like having a child is just superfluous if it doesn't really affect the characters' relationships with each other and changes that character as a person (by contrast, Piccolo and Krillin gained an immense amount of development thanks to Gohan). In hindsight, I think one of the reasons why I like OG Dragon Ball is likely because of how dramatically Goku changed throughout the show, whereas he seemed to become stagnant in Z and then in subsequent shows (GT and Super included).

[Vic Vega]

I like Goku enough as the main protagonist, but I suppose this is one reason why I've grown to like the other characters more than him as time goes on. Almost all the other important characters have grown and changed a lot in their own ways while still keeping their key traits (i.e. Vegeta is 1000x way more paternal now than he ever was in the Android Saga, but he's still the hot-headed arrogant jerk from the start). After 20-30 years of growth, it's great to see those characters grow logically along with the audience, but the only one who really hasn't is Goku. And so, sometimes it gets tiring seeing Goku go over the same patterns he has in saga after saga, and sometimes (oftentimes) he has to lose the final battles so that don't get *too* complacent with him.

I love my thirty-year old franchises, don't get me wrong. But if the main character is the same person from day 1 to the present without much lasting effect to him, they start to get a bit bland. Surface level changes happen but they ned to add something. A major life milestone like having a child is just superfluous if it doesn't really affect the characters' relationships with each other and changes that character as a person (by contrast, Piccolo and Krillin gained an immense amount of development thanks to Gohan). In hindsight, I think one of the reasons why I like OG Dragon Ball is likely because of how dramatically Goku changed throughout the show, whereas he seemed to become stagnant in Z and then in subsequent shows (GT and Super included).

It's really bad when you realize that Roshi got more character development in Super than Goku did.

To be fair to DragonBall Z, I'm not sure that any Shonen Protags change much after they attain their endgame (Adulthood+series specific goal).

Boruto might not be just a cash grab, it might also be Kishimoto's admission that there's nothing else he can do with Naruto and Sasuke now that they re aged up married off and are sole masters of some insanely broken Jutsus.

[sunofdarkchild]

I like Goku enough as the main protagonist, but I suppose this is one reason why I've grown to like the other characters more than him as time goes on. Almost all the other important characters have grown and changed a lot in their own ways while still keeping their key traits (i.e. Vegeta is 1000x way more paternal now than he ever was in the Android Saga, but he's still the hot-headed arrogant jerk from the start). After 20-30 years of growth, it's great to see those characters grow logically along with the audience, but the only one who really hasn't is Goku. And so, sometimes it gets tiring seeing Goku go over the same patterns he has in saga after saga, and sometimes (oftentimes) he has to lose the final battles so that don't get *too* complacent with him.

I love my thirty-year old franchises, don't get me wrong. But if the main character is the same person from day 1 to the present without much lasting effect to him, they start to get a bit bland. Surface level changes happen but they ned to add something. A major life milestone like having a child is just superfluous if it doesn't really affect the characters' relationships with each other and changes that character as a person (by contrast, Piccolo and Krillin gained an immense amount of development thanks to Gohan). In hindsight, I think one of the reasons why I like OG Dragon Ball is likely because of how dramatically Goku changed throughout the show, whereas he seemed to become stagnant in Z and then in subsequent shows (GT and Super included).

That's my big problem with Dragonball as a franchise now, and Shonen in general. I still think Goku should never have come back to life after sacrificing himself against Cell, and I find that Super is only interesting when it focuses on someone other than Goku. Despite all the story-arcs, the franchise seems stagnant because Goku is stagnant.

Bleach had a similar problem with Ichigo becoming boring after the first major arc and practically every other character being more interesting than him.

[Mormel]

It's funny, now that Super's added to the Dragon Ball mythos and brought back a somewhat more light-hearted tone like Dragon Ball had, to me it makes Dragon Ball Z look like the 'gritty, extreme 90s' incarnation of the series. Don't get me wrong, DBZ is a wonderful show, but it loved putting its characters through torturous hardship.

[Dark Soul # 7]

It's funny, now that Super's added to the Dragon Ball mythos and brought back a somewhat more light-hearted tone like Dragon Ball had, to me it makes Dragon Ball Z look like the 'gritty, extreme 90s' incarnation of the series. Don't get me wrong, DBZ is a wonderful show, but it loved putting its characters through torturous hardship.

I think it's mainly the different time slot the one they had was aimed to let as many kids as possible watch the show. Also, Super doesn't have a manga to follow and Toriyama could get pretty surprisingly violent in the more dramatic moments.

[TheCape]

Adding a bit more to what i say, DBS Manga is awfull, i can't believe that there are people that believe that is somehow better than the anime at all.

[Jackalope89]

Adding a bit more to what i say, DBS Manga is awfull, i can't believe that there are people that believe that is somehow better than the anime at all.

It certainly has its die hard defenders.

[Cyke]

It's funny, now that Super's added to the Dragon Ball mythos and brought back a somewhat more light-hearted tone like Dragon Ball had, to me it makes Dragon Ball Z look like the 'gritty, extreme 90s' incarnation of the series. Don't get me wrong, DBZ is a wonderful show, but it loved putting its characters through torturous hardship.

Time travel? Swords? Mass murder? Mournful teenagers? Jackets and pockets? It's Dragon Ball X-Force!

(At least, in comparison to everything before and after it)

[TheCape]

It certainly has its die hard defenders.

Lol that's true,.but to be hinest for every obe thing that the manga does better than the anime, i think that at the same time made many others wrong.

[choptop]

Adding a bit more to what i say, DBS Manga is awfull, i can't believe that there are people that believe that is somehow better than the anime at all.

What's so bad about it?

[Jackalope89]

What's so bad about it?

spoilers:

You know how in the anime, every member of U7 got their time to shine for at least an episode? Yeah, Krillin and Tien are tossed out before they can even throw a punch. Piccolo isn't much better. Gohan is apparently on the same level as Kalifla. Multiple universes are wiped out, and there is literally no tension or shock about it. None of their characters are given ANY depth to give you even the slightest bit of sympathy for their universes.... And a lot more. Just for this arc. Let's not even touch the end of the Goku Black Arc and what not.

end of spoilers

[Starter Set]

As for the complaints about Goku's characterization, I'll never understand it. He's portrayed the exact same way he always was

I invite you to re-read the last few tomes of Dragon Ball.

No, not at all, Goku is not portrayed as he should be, as he was by the end of the manga. He's portrayed as he was in tome 5 or 6, when he truly was a child, and that's me being generous.

Yes, Goku's characterization did change over the years and to say that he was the same as he always was is just factually wrong.

[Jackalope89]

Super did have some moments where they dialed Goku's naivete up to 11 though. Like at points during the Future Trunks Arc. Kind of made you wonder how he dressed himself in the mornings and what not.