Dragon Ball GT or Dragon Ball Super

[sunofdarkchild]

Didn't Krillin wish away the Androids' bombs at the end of the Cell saga? So how could 17 blow himself up without his bomb?

[Hazard]

Didn't Krillin wish away the Androids' bombs at the end of the Cell saga? So how could 17 blow himself up without his bomb?

Same way Vegeta can.

[The Big G]

Same way Vegeta can.

Same way Chaotzu did

[Jackalope89]

Same way Chaotzu did

Maybe not so much?

wild_nappa_appeared__by_sycomantis91-d5qqiak.jpg

[nitake92]

Regarding the SSG ritual and the next generation of Saiyans… I would theorize that no one on the Z team would allow Goten and Trunks to be the recipient of the ritual mainly due to having seen how well behaved with powers they were as Gotenks back in the Buu saga. They would have to be older and more mature mentally before Goku and the others would allow them that power.

As for Gohan, like other said, fighting, training and getting stronger is not what he strives for in his life unlike Goku and Vegeta and he has the tendency to slack. Also, you have to note that at that time, he just learned that he was going to be a father so most of his time and attention would be with his wife and getting ready for Pan’s birth.

In fact I have my theory on why he lost so much power between the BOG saga and ROF saga when earlier in his life from the Cell Saga to the Buu Saga, he didn’t lose TOO much power.

1. At the end of the Cell Saga, Gohan was the strongest fighter, Goku was dead, Trunks had gone back to his timeline and Vegeta seemingly gave up fighting. The next strongest at that point was Piccolo who was far below him. Gohan being the first line of defense against any threat which to his 11 year old self kept coming in rapid succession (Saiyan, Freeza, Cell) would probably be pressured to maintain his power somewhat. I would theorize that only in the later years where an unprecedented amount of peace time has occur and with Goten growing up that Gohan would slack more in his trainings.

2. Compared this to the BOG era where Goku is still alive and is now FAR stronger than he is with the SSG power absorbed into him, Vegeta apparently getting stronger than him and both of them going to train with Whis to get even stronger and the pressure is gone for him to keep up training at all alongside his new responsibility as a father with a newborn baby which probably eats up the remaining free time he has and so on. That is until Freeza AND Ginyu forcefully reminded him why that’s a bad idea.

3. So Gohan (Buu Saga) is, if we’re using a sport analogy, a player in the game who is in Off-season mode whereas Gohan (ROF) is a retired ex player who no longer plays or keep himself in condition to play competitively.

4. His rapid comeback was already credited to Piccolo retraining him from ROF time upward and he had the potential deep down even in the prelim but it took the intense crash course training they had to do during Ep88 upward to bring it all out full force. So it wasn't just 2 days of intense training, the ground work had been laid down for his coming back power-wise.

[Vic Vega]

also, my take on the other saiyan not getting the SSG ritual is due to a lack of drive. gohan, trunks and goten are lacking in the whole "saiyan lust for battle". sure goten and trunks do enjoy fighting but they don't take it as seriously as their fathers. so i don't think it's wise to have a couple of impulsive kids messing around with energies that **** with the very fabric of the universe if used improperly.

as for gohan, his personality doesn't lend him wanting to master or even possess god ki. gohan only trains as much as he needs to. if there is no major threat, then he will slack off. not to mention, unlike his father, he can't just leave his family at the drop of a hat to train for months on end when there is no real point to it.

If the Goku v. Gohan fight before the T.O.P. is anything to go by Gohan's Ultimate form after training now seems to rival Blue at least.

How is that possible?

Damned if I know.

[Cyke]

Same way Chaotzu did

I love to think that Tien got triggered and yelled out for Chiaozu before correcting himself for 17.

[Jackalope89]

If the Goku v. Gohan fight before the T.O.P. is anything to go by Gohan's Ultimate form after training now seems to rival Blue at least.

How is that possible?

Damned if I know.

Well, prior to Super, back in the Buu Arc, it made him far and away the strongest unfused fighter to that point. His power well surpassing that of even SSJ3 Goku. And all that had to be done was Elder Kai do a little jig around him for awhile.

[nitake92]

Regarding Ep 127

Couldn’t watch until last night. I am saddened at what happened to 17 but he put in far more work & accomplishment than the veterans like Piccolo, Gohan did in DB Super as a whole.
The fight with Jiren was not that good, we know he would curbstomp everyone but Goku and the others did FAR better than what you’d expect with a “serious” Jiren. I’m going to “head-canon” a bit and think that even at full-power, he’s still holding back to a degree to not kill them but mainly more just to show them how weak they are compared to how strong he is considering his backstory this episode which they finally got to.

Jiren’s background/behavior as many on the net has stated has a lot of similarities with Batman than what many on the web thought Jiren was initially (a Superman expy). While these type of origins have been done before (Batman) this is the first time it’s been done for a Dragon Ball antagonist and is thus rather new.

First of all I would say that Jiren’s backstory and worldview definitely reminds me of Batman, mostly the Batman that existed during the late 90’s up to Infinite Crisis. The Bat-God, Bat-D*** era, where Batman doesn’t trust anyone in the Justice League, looks down on them in some stories, doesn’t see them as friends, colleagues at best. Other similarities from other eras of Batman are also there such as not taking a life, “My parents are deaddddd !!! (meme), training to be the best, his friends died or they had a falling out leaving him (Jason Todd Robin, Barbara Gordon Batgirl,- Nightwing, Outsiders) The thing that matters most is his city/ Universe 11) that he’s sworn to protect. A fixation on the past and how he’s let moments in the past haunt and defines him/ keeping him from going forward in some ways.

Of course there are differences such as Jiren coming to the conclusion that only strength matters and it’s colored his action. He probably doesn’t see the Pride Troopers as friends but colleagues at best, disposable asset at worst because his previous friends left him and he probably thinks that they all are only drawn to him because of his strength. At the same time, I would also think that because of his mindset and the fact that he’s finally above everyone in his universe and in many universes (as far as we know), he finds his life empty and seeks if there is anything beyond strength that matters which is now my interpretation of his conversation with Goku in Ep 123. This highlights the difference between Jiren and Goku in belief, for Jiren, strength and getting stronger is a necessity for him to live by while for Goku, it’s something fun to do and a life goal that will never end for him.

For Jiren, at this point, I’m not sure what his wish for the Super Dragon ball are since it’s apparently a selfish wish ( I think this is a keypoint from Toriyama) so I don’t think it’s wishing back all the erased universe but maybe wishing back his sensei/friends/ parents so that he could reaffirm that the way he chose to live his life (strength forgives all, it’s all that matters) is correct, but I keep getting the feeling that he wouldn’t be truly satisfied no matter what.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

Well, prior to Super, back in the Buu Arc, it made him far and away the strongest unfused fighter to that point. His power well surpassing that of even SSJ3 Goku. And all that had to be done was Elder Kai do a little jig around him for awhile.

For some reason, I thought it was right around the same level. Maybe a little stronger or weaker, but right around there. Been a while since I've seen those episodes, though.

[nitake92]

As I saw it in the Buu saga,

Gohan was a lot stronger than Gotenks who at his best might be able to handle Super Buu. This Super Buu/ Buff Buu is someone that Goku directly stated that even he and Vegeta are no match for even if they worked together. It took Buu apparently regressing to Kid Buu that Goku felt confident enough that he can take Buu on one on one.

So Buu Saga tier was like this Vegito, Gohan (Strongest unfused) then Gotenk and then Goku. And from what Piccolo hinted in Ep88 and what we've seen with Mastered SSJ and how SSB got a lot stronger from ROF saga to it's current saga. It's possible that the power "Ultimate" Gohan had in Buu saga was him just starting out and not even close to drawing out the maximum limit.

[Jovos2099]

i think all of the the erased universes are going be revived with super dragon balls either as their own or merged with universe ala new earth in dc crisis on infinite earths vegeta already said he was going revive at least the universe 6 sayians.

[wjowski]

I'd pretty much put Jiren going all at this point out in the same category as Beerus 'going all out'. I think there's more to see yet.

[Jackalope89]

i think all of the the erased universes are going be revived with super dragon balls either as their own or merged with universe ala new earth in dc crisis on infinite earths vegeta already said he was going revive at least the universe 6 sayians.

That's where I'm at, and I'm fine with that. Over on Kanzenshuu... Let's just say its not the most warmly received theory out there (though most do believe it).

[Deadxman]

That's where I'm at, and I'm fine with that. Over on Kanzenshuu... Let's just say its not the most warmly received theory out there (though most do believe it).

hopefully Goku messes up and brings back everything the zenos erased.

including the most evil universes