Dragon Ball GT or Dragon Ball Super

[Sain]

Best thing about GT was most of the character design, animation, and depiction of time; I liked how they aged some of the characters and seeing that character growth. I also loved SSJ4 and think it is the definitive final form. Not to simple, not too flashy, they go back to the black hair and the tail. That's the definition of coming full circle.

How people can stomach the skittle forms in super and still find them surprising is what baffles me.

[EmeraldGladiator]

My main issue with Dragonball as it progresses is with all of the successive power ups, all of my favorite characters (Picallo, Gohan) are being left behind because threats two Goku and Vegeta easily outclass everyone else. Now if Piccallo and Gohan could go off and power up somewhere or heck even wish for it via dragon balls it would increase my enjoyment of the series. Because (and I have only gotten to where Cartoon Network has gone so a little behind so if it changed forgive me but I doubt it has) it has gotten repetitive like Voltron, big threat shows up secondary characters fight valiantly but are thoroughly outclassed then comes Vegeeta (close but no cigar) and then comes Goku reaching some yet unimagined power level to conquer a foe, cue "form blazing sword" and another ro-beast bites the dust. The reason why Cell saga was my favorite is because it went against that norm and Gohan, not Goku defeated the big bad. The Cell saga for me was the Empire Strikes Back of the Dragonball franchise.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

I wonder if Dragon Ball was all about dancing instead of fighting would Goku have gotten Ultra Rhythm instead of Ultra Instinct.

[EmeraldGladiator]

the only thing I really liked about GT was the concept of a Super Saiyan talking golden gorilla form. Still not sure comparative power level between say Super Sayian 3 to a Golden Gorilla.

[master of read]

i liked how vegeta got so much character development. hell, he was shown to be a far more complex character than goku ever hopes to be. they fleshed his relationship with bulma, made him a more supportive father to both future and present trunks and bra, made him into a pretty good master/mentor and even his fighting style showed signs of changing and adaptation.

[Judge Dredd]

I love that Goku has basically not evolved mentally or emotionally since he was 10. The only thing he has learned is how to tell gender without slapping someone in the crotch.

[Sacred Knight]

He is an eternal child. Its what the US dubs have always gotten so staggeringly wrong about the character.

I'm assuming they figured, and hell, perhaps rightfully so, that US audiences wouldn't see the appeal of the main protagonist staying nearly mentally the same age as he was when he was a boy. I mean, he's a bit aloof and has a sense of humor but he's not nearly as child-like. And what you end up with is not really Goku.

[Judge Dredd]

He is an eternal child. Its what the US dubs have always gotten so staggeringly wrong about the character.

Very true the speech he makes in the dub when he goes SSJ for the first time the speech completely changes his character and personality. The man just wants to fight the best of the best and will deal with repercussions of this after the fight. I was glad that in Super Goku stated he is not some hero of justice basically saying the SSJ speech in the DBZ dub was wrong. I think when Super started a lot of people got their first real taste of Goku.

[master of read]

Very true the speech he makes in the dub when he goes SSJ for the first time the speech completely changes his character and personality. The man just wants to fight the best of the best and will deal with repercussions of this after the fight. I was glad that in Super Goku stated he is not some hero of justice basically saying the SSJ speech in the DBZ dub was wrong. I think when Super started a lot of people got their first real taste of Goku.

which brings up a interesting dichotomy: gohan has a more developed sense of right and wrong than goku. not that goku is evil. just that he tends to not make good choices when it comes to life or death situation. gohan, even a early age, shows that he can't just stand by and let wrongs go unpunished, hence why he became great saiyaman.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Now that we've had some time to digest the Tournament of Power arc, what did people like/dislike with the arc overall.

For me...

Like:
- Characters were in general used very well. 17 and Freiza stole the show on multiple occascions, they almost completely nailed Gohan's character arc, and when they focused on the final fighters of a specific universe they managed to make me care and feel something for those characters/that universe no matter how little screen time they had (see Obuni, Saonel, Pirina, Zaburto, Rabanra and Zirloin). The character development Jiren got in the last two episode made up for a lot of the drag of his stoic nature incurred towards the end. And so on. In general, solid character work for most parties.
- They handled Ultra Instinct really well, making it feel like momentous event all three times it was activated and it seems like they won't over-expose it like they did with SSB. That would be great.
- When they upped the animation they really freaking upped the animation and it was always amazing.
- Lots of fun new characters introduced that carry lots of potential for future story arcs.
- Episode 118 exemplifies all the best parts about this arc and is one of the best episodes in the entire series. Fight me.

The bad:
- Jiren should've knocked out Vegeta when they fought the first time (Vegeta could still get his never give up moment) and Gohan should've been the one to defeat Toppo with a rage boosted Potential Unleashed. That would've been so much cooler.
- I know a lot of prefer that Goku's blame in starting the tournament was diminished since the Zen-Ohs were going to destroy the universes anyway (which doesn't line up with the secret test nonsense and further fuels my belief that a lot of these decisions come from the GP). But man, I was really looking forward to the series deconstructing Goku character and his motivation a bit more. His desire for strong opponents indirectly being the reason why several universes die would've tied in greatly to his reasoning for not coming back after the Cell games. It just feels like somebody chickened out and we missed some added depth and possible character development for Goku.
- While a lot of characters were very well represented there were still a lot that just didn't get a real chance to shine or just stunk (universe 4).
- The pacing was all over the place.

[Judge Dredd]

which brings up a interesting dichotomy: gohan has a more developed sense of right and wrong than goku. not that goku is evil. just that he tends to not make good choices when it comes to life or death situation. gohan, even a early age, shows that he can't just stand by and let wrongs go unpunished, hence why he became great saiyaman.

Yeah Gohan surpassed him early on when it came to right and wrong, but Goku was basically raised himself in the wild since a fairly young age. He never had any life mentors just martial art ones and the Roshi is not exactly the best mentor for a young boy. He also probably got some serious brain damage when he fell off a cliff as a baby. With both of those I would say he did not turn out to bad for a wild child who has only known fighting the fact he can function as a person is impressive with his background.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Gohan surpassing Goku was a seriously cool legacy moment, giving the crown back to Goku and even worse yet (in GT) revert him back in age, never let the series grow, but as noted by great posters previously, Goku is never allowed to grow, so a show with the main protagonist never grows while everyone around him does just rings hollow when the main protagonist gets most of the screen time. If Goku never changes then each successive adventure never changes the narrative it becomes, Voltron. So is the message DB is trying to send better to be the absentee father and prioritize fighting (Goku) or be the more mature attitude laden Gohan (possibly because he was raised moreso by his mother and Piccallo than ever by Goku).

[Judge Dredd]

I like that the growth happens around him and due to him, but he never changes himself. Literally just about everyone he met and become friends with was either an asshole or a villain. Krillin was a cheating selfish angry little man, Yamcha was a desert bandit, Tien was an aggressive and was basically going to be Tao jr, Piccolo wanted to kill Goku and take over the world, Vegeta was a world killer who, Buu was also a world killer. All reformed by Goku so despite not much growth himself he has made everyone around him better.

Edit: I forgot Oolong, Lunch, and Beerus, Android 8, 17, and 18. Oolong was stealing girls from a village, Lunch was sometimes a robber depending on personality that is active, and Beerus was all about destroying until he learned about good food. Thankfully Super did not end with Frieza and Goku becoming actual friends.

[master of read]

I like that the growth happens around him and due to him, but he never changes himself. Literally just about everyone he met and become friends with was either an asshole or a villain. Krillin was a cheating selfish angry little man, Yamcha was a desert bandit, Tien was an aggressive and was basically going to be Tao jr, Piccolo wanted to kill Goku and take over the world, Vegeta was a world killer who, Buu was also a world killer. All reformed by Goku so despite not much growth himself he has made everyone around him better.

Edit: I forgot Oolong, Lunch, and Beerus, Android 8, 17, and 18. Oolong was stealing girls from a village, Lunch was sometimes a robber depending on personality that is active, and Beerus was all about destroying until he learned about good food. Thankfully Super did not end with Frieza and Goku becoming actual friends.

and while that's cool, it and of itself doesn't make goku a very interesting character. at least to me.

[bruceleegreyhulk]

that speech he made in the Original DBZ Dub as a Super Saiyan versus Freiza was completely change in the Dragon ball Z Kai Dub.