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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    So who's the best dad: Vegeta, Gohan or Krillin?
    Based on what we've seen, I'd go with Gohan. He's around. He works. He worries about looking good for Pan. He cares for her when she's sick. He plays with her. He gave of a prestigious position to stay with her and Videl. He's pretty much doing everything right as a father that Goku did wrong. We haven't seen enough of Krillin as a father to compare him to Gohan, but he could be about the same.

    Vegeta is getting better, but I don't think he'll ever truly reach 'good father' material. He has too much baggage and too much of a nasty streak.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    So who's the best dad: Vegeta, Gohan or Krillin?
    hmmmm might have to say gohan but only slightly.

    sadly, 'geta comes in 3rd but only by default. he has vastly improved since he became a father in the android arc. he's shown to care about and be proud of trunks, both present and future versions. he does do the tough love, like when future trunks implied that he was just gonna sit back and let vegeta take out black and dude was like "hell no! we will help but you still need to get stronger!"

    but i can say that all three are better fathers than goku.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Based on what we've seen, I'd go with Gohan. He's around. He works. He worries about looking good for Pan. He cares for her when she's sick. He plays with her. He gave of a prestigious position to stay with her and Videl. He's pretty much doing everything right as a father that Goku did wrong. We haven't seen enough of Krillin as a father to compare him to Gohan, but he could be about the same.

    Vegeta is getting better, but I don't think he'll ever truly reach 'good father' material. He has too much baggage and too much of a nasty streak.
    that might have been true for Z but not for super. he seems to have taken whis' advice about relaxing and not being so uptight.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    So who's the best dad: Vegeta, Gohan or Krillin?

    I think Piccolo should get an honorable mention here since you can argue he raised Gohan more than Goku did.

    According to 18 (who is not one to mince words), Krillin has "given us (her and Marron) everything".

    I'd say Krillin and Gohan were at least tied.
    Last edited by Vic Vega; 02-07-2017 at 03:17 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    hence why i call goku's intelligence/sanity into question. honestly, i'm starting to dislike goku now because of his actions in super. at least the other characters, notably vegeta, are showing growth and development. goku seems to have regressed in terms of personality and he's kinda acting like a dick. especially when he was giving vegeta guff for wanting to be there for the birth of his second child and not just leave at the drop of a hat to train.
    The entire series is kinda deconstructing Goku piece by piece with each arc.

    He could power up as much as he wanted, he still couldn't take down Beerus. The only thing that saved them that time was that Beerus turned out to be pretty chill... some times.

    He went easy on Freezer, again, and they were only saved by Whis being able to turn back the clock so that Goku could get another chance at saving the day. Being kind to his opponents isn't always a good thing.

    Then there's the tournament against universe 6 where Goku wanting a "fair" fight against Hit almost cost them the whole tournament. This time they were saved by Hit returning the favor and throwing his match against Monaka.

    Next we have the Future Trunks arc. Goku is partially responsible for pushing Zamasu over the edge simply because he wanted to see how strong the guy was. And that just led to a whole lot of bad. The mess caused by the climax of that arc was so huge that it's a bit difficult to keep how they fixed the whole thing straight.

    Now, here we are. Goku befriending Zen-Oh and not heading warnings about the guy is going to cause a multiversal crisis.

    Goku was right, he should've just stayed dead after the Cell games.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    The entire series is kinda deconstructing Goku piece by piece with each arc.

    He could power up as much as he wanted, he still couldn't take down Beerus. The only thing that saved them that time was that Beerus turned out to be pretty chill... some times.

    He went easy on Freezer, again, and they were only saved by Whis being able to turn back the clock so that Goku could get another chance at saving the day. Being kind to his opponents isn't always a good thing.

    Then there's the tournament against universe 6 where Goku wanting a "fair" fight against Hit almost cost them the whole tournament. This time they were saved by Hit returning the favor and throwing his match against Monaka.

    Next we have the Future Trunks arc. Goku is partially responsible for pushing Zamasu over the edge simply because he wanted to see how strong the guy was. And that just led to a whole lot of bad. The mess caused by the climax of that arc was so huge that it's a bit difficult to keep how they fixed the whole thing straight.

    Now, here we are. Goku befriending Zen-Oh and not heading warnings about the guy is going to cause a multiversal crisis.

    Goku was right, he should've just stayed dead after the Cell games.
    albeit for different reasons that what he originally intended.

  7. #37

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    turns Toei will be using the old cell animation style they did in Dragon Ball Z for Super's Universe Survival arc.


    site showing the differences between the new animation of Super and the old animation of super

    have watch Episode 77 yeah there's a difference between it's animation style and the style use previous episodes.

    well Funimation is still going with Goku as a hero of justice with their DBS dub. this is apparent in the first episode dub going by Goku's dub dialogue.

    Super Dub

    Goku's Dialogue

    " Majin Bu was ridiculous strong there's no way I could stop him on my own. and you never know one day something even strong my show up. so I got to keep training to keep you guys safe make sense."

    Sub

    Goku's Dialogue


    " Majin Buu was strong right. well I couldn't beat him on my own and I just wanted to prepare myself incase something else happens. "
    Last edited by bruceleegreyhulk; 02-07-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beercorn View Post
    Super is fine. Lots of filler, but it goes back and forth between boring filler(the purple goo monsters) and awesome filler(the baseball episode). Also, I like that Super doesn't take itself too seriously. The stakes get very high, but the show isn't afraid to laugh at itself. The Goku Black arc has some of the highest stakes in all of Dragonball, and in the end, it turns out that Goku could have saved them at any time. He simply forgot that Zeno gave him that button. That fact alone made me burst out laughing.
    Yeah, Goku Black had some of the highest stakes of the franchise (def), but I also love how the U6 tournament was actually pretty low stakes. No one was in danger of dying (aside by Champa), planets weren't going to get blown up (if the Earth switched places, life would've been the same), and almost all their friends were there -- seriously, seeing Ox-King, Dr. Briefs, and Turtle on an unnamed planet between universes in a stadium built by an angel? NO WAY would that have happened in any other Dragon Ball series.

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    hence why i call goku's intelligence/sanity into question. honestly, i'm starting to dislike goku now because of his actions in super. at least the other characters, notably vegeta, are showing growth and development. goku seems to have regressed in terms of personality and he's kinda acting like a dick. especially when he was giving vegeta guff for wanting to be there for the birth of his second child and not just leave at the drop of a hat to train.
    I used to dislike Vegeta the way I disliked Wolverine. Overhyped (I AM THE HYPE) anti-hero who seems badass but has moments of cowering. And then, yet, we saw him grow as a parent and husband. Hell, his first fight in the series was because his wife got slapped. And then he even became a mentor.

    Also, props to Gohan for prioritizing family so much. Yeah, I want to see him crazy powerful again, and I'm glad he's training once more, but Pan needs him too, and the show does a good job of emphasizing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    albeit for different reasons that what he originally intended.
    I feel like that's the thing, though. As much of a prodigy and genius he is, as much as he impresses the gods (and even THE God), he never had much in the way of foresight otherwise to consider different consequences, and for much of Super, that's bitten him in the ass. A lot. It explains why, despite all his power, his win ratio after Cell has been pretty dismal, and why others end up saving the day.
    Last edited by Cyke; 02-07-2017 at 03:57 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Yeah, Goku Black had some of the highest stakes of the franchise (def), but I also love how the U6 tournament was actually pretty low stakes. No one was in danger of dying (aside by Champa), planets weren't going to get blown up (if the Earth switched places, life would've been the same), and almost all their friends were there -- seriously, seeing Ox-King, Dr. Briefs, and Turtle on an unnamed planet between universes in a stadium built by an angel? NO WAY would that have happened in any other Dragon Ball series.



    I used to dislike Vegeta the way I disliked Wolverine. Overhyped (I AM THE HYPE) anti-hero who seems badass but has moments of cowering. And then, yet, we saw him grow as a parent and husband. Hell, his first fight in the series was because his wife got slapped. And then he even became a mentor.

    Also, props to Gohan for prioritizing family so much. Yeah, I want to see him crazy powerful again, and I'm glad he's training once more, but Pan needs him too, and the show does a good job of emphasizing that.



    I feel like that's the thing, though. As much of a prodigy and genius he is, as much as he impresses the gods (and even THE God), he never had much in the way of foresight otherwise to consider different consequences, and for much of Super, that's bitten him in the ass. A lot. It explains why, despite all his power, his win ratio after Cell has been pretty dismal, and why others end up saving the day.
    and lets not forget videl. we got to see a real relationship between them, much different from his parent's "relationship".

    videl had so much love, faith and understanding for gohan that she knew immediately that he would never cheat on her. even with pics of him kissing another woman, she was like "yeah right! i know my husband and he wouldn't do this without reason."

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    videl had so much love, faith and understanding for gohan that she knew immediately that he would never cheat on her. even with pics of him kissing another woman, she was like "yeah right! i know my husband and he wouldn't do this without reason."
    That's right! The show even played the heroic theme usually reserved for the Z-Fighters for that moment, when she stood up for her husband! It was pretty bad-ass, and she didn't have to do a single bit of fighting.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Based on what we've seen, I'd go with Gohan. He's around. He works. He worries about looking good for Pan. He cares for her when she's sick. He plays with her. He gave of a prestigious position to stay with her and Videl. He's pretty much doing everything right as a father that Goku did wrong. We haven't seen enough of Krillin as a father to compare him to Gohan, but he could be about the same.

    Vegeta is getting better, but I don't think he'll ever truly reach 'good father' material. He has too much baggage and too much of a nasty streak.
    To be fair, the reason Gohan, Krillin etc. can be good fathers is only because Goku protects them. Gohan, despite having way bigger potential than Goku, alomost completly stopped training and relies on his father to protect him and his family. They all do. Without Goku constantly training and trying to get stronger all of them would have died one time or another. Imagine what would have happened if Goku stopped training after the Freeza saga.

    Who else is there? The humans, 18 and Piccolo are too weak. Goten and Trunks are to small. Vegeta is almost always a step behind.

    Considering that Gohan could be on Goku´s level without needing to train as extensively one could consider him quite selfish for not contributing to the protection of earth and his family, but only relying on his father to do so.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post

    Goku was right, he should've just stayed dead after the Cell games.
    In this case the rest of the gang would be dead, too, because none of them would have been powerful enough to survive Buu or the return of Freeza. Goku is not only the strongest but he is also the inspiration for others. Usually he gets stronger and then the rest follows. For example I doubt Vegeta would have been able to achieve SS Blue without Goku beeing able to do it first.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kane View Post
    In this case the rest of the gang would be dead, too, because none of them would have been powerful enough to survive Buu or the return of Freeza. Goku is not only the strongest but he is also the inspiration for others. Usually he gets stronger and then the rest follows. For example I doubt Vegeta would have been able to achieve SS Blue without Goku beeing able to do it first.
    Actually, they would have survived Buu because without Goku and Vegeta's fight Babidi wouldn't have been able to resurrect him.

    The basic problem is that if Toriyama didn't resurrect Goku then Gohan would have remained the strongest fighter regardless of his choices of whether to train or not. Goku's return pushed everyone but Vegeta to the side. If Goku didn't return then it would have been Gohan who beat Buu, since he was the only one besides for possibly Gotenks who could have taken Super Buu on his own and would have easily trounced Kid Buu. Then he'd have been the 1 to get the SSJG powerup in Battle of Gods, since it doesn't involve training and it would have been to protect the child he just found out he was going to have. Then things would play out largely the same battlewise in Super, except he'd resent being forced to train and be away from his family instead of living for those times like Goku, and he wouldn't do what Goku did in the last episode. Freeza would whup him until he began to lose power, at which point Gohan would gain the upper hand, like with Goku. Future Trunks would still be the one who killed Zamasu.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Actually, they would have survived Buu because without Goku and Vegeta's fight Babidi wouldn't have been able to resurrect him.

    The basic problem is that if Toriyama didn't resurrect Goku then Gohan would have remained the strongest fighter regardless of his choices of whether to train or not. Goku's return pushed everyone but Vegeta to the side. If Goku didn't return then it would have been Gohan who beat Buu, since he was the only one besides for possibly Gotenks who could have taken Super Buu on his own and would have easily trounced Kid Buu. Then he'd have been the 1 to get the SSJG powerup in Battle of Gods, since it doesn't involve training and it would have been to protect the child he just found out he was going to have. Then things would play out largely the same battlewise in Super, except he'd resent being forced to train and be away from his family instead of living for those times like Goku, and he wouldn't do what Goku did in the last episode. Freeza would whup him until he began to lose power, at which point Gohan would gain the upper hand, like with Goku. Future Trunks would still be the one who killed Zamasu.
    The Boo Saga had Gohan forget the one thing he should have taken from the Cell Games when you get the bad guy down, end him and Gohan's no dummy.

    But without Gohan grabbing the Idiot Ball, he cleans up on Super Buu by himself and Goku isn't needed at all and you don't get Veggito.

  15. #45
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    Goku being the only one strong enough to defeat villains like Buu is a purely narrative issue. He is the hero of the story, so he gets to shine for most of the battles, and is eventually the one who saves the day. Tenshinhan and Piccolo pretty much spend all their spare time meditating and training. There is no plausible reason why either of them wouldn't attain levels on a par with menaces like Buu or a returning Frieza. The only reason is to nerf them so that Goku can save the day. And frankly, from a storytelling perspective, there's nothing wrong with that. Goku is a great protagonist you can really root for.
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