Dragon Ball GT or Dragon Ball Super

[Majin_O.A.W.]

A Superior Goku? I am 100% excited for that! But with all humour aside, i don't think that it will take such a turn. This arc appears to be for fan sevicing purposes and it would be extremely controversial, even for DB standards.

What happened to Android 17 after the Cell games. I forgot. Has he appeared (not counting GT) in Z since the Cell sage ended?

[Guy1]

What happened to Android 17 after the Cell games. I forgot. Has he appeared (not counting GT) in Z since the Cell sage ended?

[Hiromi]

What happened to Android 17 after the Cell games. I forgot. Has he appeared (not counting GT) in Z since the Cell sage ended?

He's a park ranger, got married, has 2 adopted kids and one normal kid.

[Minerboh]

That scene was cut from the greek version.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

Heh, hiding the fact that the universes were going to be wiped anyways, and only Goku's request for a tourney gave any of them a fighting chance, is interesting. Now Goku's got seven universes gunning for him, and with the rules of the Tournament, this should be quite the sight.

[Cyke]

omg omg omg

I've always, always, always wanted a good team vs. team fight that involved as many Z-Fighters as possible. We had the Cell Games, but that was over 20 years ago. The Frieza Army was just a bunch of cannon fodder, and Goku and Vegeta weren't even in the fight. I am hyped. (Vegeta: "I AM THE HYPE!)

Funny thing about Goku, though. Beerus pointed out that Goku didn't understand the terms of this fight, in that if he were to lose fairly, the universes would be saved. Of course, there was the rule that if he *didn't* give it his all, the universes would be wiped out then and there, but Goku never acknowledged it the way all the others did. Plus, Goku challenging the multiverse at once is perhaps the most arrogant we've ever seen. In the original Japanese DB/Z, he either fights because his opponent is a villain, or because he wants the challenge (i.e. "Let's see who wins!"), but he rarely outright declared that he would beat them, just that he was excited for the challenge. Even against Cell, he fought more to see how he and Cell would fare, hence the mistake of giving him a senzu bean. Yeah, he would often bite off more than he could chew when he challenged fighters, but he also never called any non-villains out like that to that extreme.

***

But holy shit, the animation in this episode was superb. The camera circling Goku and Bergamo as they exchanged blows was wonderful. By virtue of the camera going around them, the animators couldn't repeat frames like any other DB fight (or even elsewhere in this episode), so each move and frame was unique. It was fluid and full of great choreography. Super's really stepped up its game here.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

To be fair, the universes were turned against him. I can sort of understand why he'd call them out. Still, I can't help but wonder if something's up. Maybe Goku's got something up his sleeve. If the tourney ends with an equal number of people from each universe still standing, maybe they all survive?

[Cyke]

To be fair, the universes were turned against him. I can sort of understand why he'd call them out. Still, I can't help but wonder if something's up. Maybe Goku's got something up his sleeve. If the tourney ends with an equal number of people from each universe still standing, maybe they all survive?

I dunno, I've been rewatching the original Dragon Ball lately (I'm now in the final arc), and while he would say things like, "I'm gonna win, just you watch," he wouldn't call out non-villains like that, so there'd be a difference between confidence and being cocky. Plus, it's pretty disturbing that ever since they arrived, Goku's had a distinct lack of concern for all the lives on the line, hence the gods' dialogue this time around. Indeed, when he first challenged Beerus, knowing virtually nothing about him, his attitude was the same like regular ol' Goku -- "Hi, I'm Goku, I heard you were strong, can we fight? This is how I make friends." That's a far cry from this Goku.

If something's up, I'd wager that maybe this Goku is being manipulated or controlled in a way that's reminiscent of Goku Black, or that maybe that Grand Priest...(edit: that is to say, if Goku is indeed being mischaracterized by Super, I'd wager to think that that's very intentional by the writers. That something is up and that it's built into the show and that it's part of the overall mystery).

[Dark Soul # 7]

Bergamo relied too much on his special ability and just couldn't keep up with Goku's overwhelming power. But he did manage to turn all the other universes against Goku, that might've happened anyway but he pushed it over the edge.

A massive team battle huh? That's quite different from what I was expecting. It'll be interesting to see how the studio presents that in terms of pacing and character focus.

[Hazard]

A curious thing to note:

The mortal level of each universe is never explicitly noted to be a "Power Level" thing. In fact, given the way it's used in this episode, it's far more likely to be a Civilization Level more than anything else.

[Cyke]

A curious thing to note:

The mortal level of each universe is never explicitly noted to be a "Power Level" thing. In fact, given the way it's used in this episode, it's far more likely to be a Civilization Level more than anything else.

If that's the case, it brings a whole new light to Beerus and Supreme Kai blaming each other. Maybe Beerus had been destroying *too* many planets willy-nilly instead of letting them develop? If so, he's to blame -- but it would also make him look like a mid level bureaucrat who isn't doing his job, can be a bully because of his power trip, and is afraid of upper management, and I think that'd be awesome and on par for Dragon Ball.

I mean, I really like Beerus as a character, but that sort of thing is something the franchise likes to poke fun at, like the demons who look like businessmen.

[Dark Soul # 7]

If that's the case, it brings a whole new light to Beerus and Supreme Kai blaming each other. Maybe Beerus had been destroying *too* many planets willy-nilly instead of letting them develop? If so, he's to blame -- but it would also make him look like a mid level bureaucrat who isn't doing his job, can be a bully because of his power trip, and is afraid of upper management, and I think that'd be awesome and on par for Dragon Ball.

I mean, I really like Beerus as a character, but that sort of thing is something the franchise likes to poke fun at, like the demons who look like businessmen.

I think Beerus' problem is slightly different. He's still bad at his job, but it's not that he's destroying planets all over the place.

Dude sleeps for decades at the time (and that's his shorts naps) while leaving his job to people like Frieza. When he does wake up he goes on a culinary tour of some planets and destroys them based on whether the inhabitants annoy him or not. He doesn't care whether the planets he destroys are well-developed or not, he just eats, destroys whatever and goes back to sleep for another 50 odd years or so.

If he paid more attention and worked with the Supereme Kai they would be able to keep a good schedule on which planets should be dealt with and which ones should be left to grow and prosper. But Beerus is a lazy ass, the Supreme Kai is still relatively young and they don't really have any established kind of working relationship.

[wjowski]

-- but it would also make him look like a mid level bureaucrat who isn't doing his job, can be a bully because of his power trip, and is afraid of upper management, and I think that'd be awesome and on par for Dragon Ball.

Honestly that's pretty much what he is at this point.

[Cyke]

Honestly that's pretty much what he is at this point.

Oh my kami, he even has the more competent and more efficient Assistant Manager Whis, too!

I love this so much.

[Sain]

YoOo, essentially a free for all tournament?? Sounds dope to me!

lol ok, so it's a given people are going to slurp Goku whenever he's fighting, especially people who don't know him; but it is just getting ridiculous now. We got universes in awe of Goku. Apparently he is the only unicorn in all of time and space, even knowing there is another universe with Saiyans that were not destroyed.

So we now have a name for the kaio ken/god form? Or was it always Kaio King Fist?

Goku cancelled out someone's power which is too eat power and utilize it..because he has so much power. Geezus. lol