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  1. #46
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    I just realised (slow, I know) that some of what I may be remembering may have been from the Prequel comics...

    Is that allowed?

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Not the Donner version

    Per Returns' novelization, the Zod Crew were never released from the Phantom Zone - Kal (if I remember correctly) thinks about Zod, but only as someone he had read/heard about rather than someone he had fought.
    So it's based on Donner's original idea, that Superman would have reversed time to undo the Phantom Zone criminals' escape?

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    One of the deleted or possibly unfilmed scenes explains that Luthor faked evidence that Krypton was intact while in prison. It's in the novelization along with explanation that the crystal island is a weapons platform.

    The movie needed more of that kind of thing.
    Yep. In fact, Luthor gloats about stealing 5 years of Superman's life and tells him the whole thing was faked while he's beating the crap out of Superman on the Kryptonite island.

    The novelization was just so much better than the fim.
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    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  4. #49
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    Yep. In fact, Luthor gloats about stealing 5 years of Superman's life and tells him the whole thing was faked while he's beating the crap out of Superman on the Kryptonite island.

    The novelization was just so much better than the fim.
    I remember reading the novelization thinking " omg...This movie is going to be the best Superman movie ever!" Then....I saw it.

    They honestly should have handled the Jason issue the way it was done in the novel. It was alluded that he was Kal's son but never confirmed, and Luthor's plot was MUCH clearer. It actually felt like the first chapter in a larger story. The movie itself felt like a last word ,a self contained thing.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
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  5. #50
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    While there's a bunch of things people were disappointed in with this movie, I think only one thing kept it from getting a sequel, on a creative level-- Richard. Not the kid. If it was just Richard/Lois has a fiance, fine. They can break up, he can be all understanding about it, and no one will really mind. Like MJ in Spidey 2 (only she ran from the altar without telling him, so I think that was way worse). If it was just the kid and no fiance, there's no issue at all. But, having both a kid AND a fiance? A fiance who for all intents and purposes thinks he's the father? There's no way to move that forward without either destroying the kid emotionally and/or making both Superman and Lois look like a-holes. So one had to go, and it should be Richard. We've seen the love triangle thing a million times before, and the current comics show that people will embrace a Superkid if it's done well enough. Plus Superman coming back home to find he has a child, someone else like him, nicely closes not just the arc of the film, but the overall arc of the Donner era as well to some extent.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
    While there's a bunch of things people were disappointed in with this movie, I think only one thing kept it from getting a sequel, on a creative level-- Richard. Not the kid. If it was just Richard/Lois has a fiance, fine. They can break up, he can be all understanding about it, and no one will really mind. Like MJ in Spidey 2 (only she ran from the altar without telling him, so I think that was way worse). If it was just the kid and no fiance, there's no issue at all. But, having both a kid AND a fiance? A fiance who for all intents and purposes thinks he's the father? There's no way to move that forward without either destroying the kid emotionally and/or making both Superman and Lois look like a-holes. So one had to go, and it should be Richard. We've seen the love triangle thing a million times before, and the current comics show that people will embrace a Superkid if it's done well enough. Plus Superman coming back home to find he has a child, someone else like him, nicely closes not just the arc of the film, but the overall arc of the Donner era as well to some extent.
    You know, it only just registered on me now that the actor who played Richard White also played Scott Summers. Lol, Cyclops was Lois' fiancé.
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  7. #52
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    Yep. In fact, Luthor gloats about stealing 5 years of Superman's life and tells him the whole thing was faked while he's beating the crap out of Superman on the Kryptonite island.
    Just on the surface, I can't tell if that would've been a good thing. I mean, it makes Luthor a better villain, but does it improve Superman's characterization? The idea that he would just up and leave never sat well with me, but if he were duped, does that make it better?

    Also, regarding Richard, it's hard to imagine what Singer's end game was. He so badly wanted all that sort of family/romance drama, but I can't imagine a scenario that would've satisfied the audience. Certainly I think the ending of the movie was rubbish, and any sort of continuation of it would've almost certainly made things worse.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
    While there's a bunch of things people were disappointed in with this movie, I think only one thing kept it from getting a sequel, on a creative level-- Richard. Not the kid. If it was just Richard/Lois has a fiance, fine. They can break up, he can be all understanding about it, and no one will really mind. Like MJ in Spidey 2 (only she ran from the altar without telling him, so I think that was way worse). If it was just the kid and no fiance, there's no issue at all. But, having both a kid AND a fiance? A fiance who for all intents and purposes thinks he's the father? There's no way to move that forward without either destroying the kid emotionally and/or making both Superman and Lois look like a-holes. So one had to go, and it should be Richard. We've seen the love triangle thing a million times before, and the current comics show that people will embrace a Superkid if it's done well enough. Plus Superman coming back home to find he has a child, someone else like him, nicely closes not just the arc of the film, but the overall arc of the Donner era as well to some extent.
    Or you could just keep Richard and ignore the love triangle.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    So it's based on Donner's original idea, that Superman would have reversed time to undo the Phantom Zone criminals' escape?
    It's been a decade since I last read it, but their release never happened. Whether that's because Superman reversed time wasn't made clear - granted, the reversal may have wiped his memory of it, I only remember that, as far as he was concerned, he had never met Zod.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    With regards to Jason, I've always preferred (in my head-canon) that he was Lois and Richard's.

    Superman II

    Lex: He switched it, he did it to them! I mean, the lights were on out here... while he was safe in there!

    And then, in Returns, when Lex exposed Jason to Kryptonite, his abilities were triggered.

    The sequel would have had them assume that he's Kal and Lois' (and Richard finding out), but later (via Brainiac or something) them finding out otherwise.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Just on the surface, I can't tell if that would've been a good thing. I mean, it makes Luthor a better villain, but does it improve Superman's characterization? The idea that he would just up and leave never sat well with me, but if he were duped, does that make it better?

    Also, regarding Richard, it's hard to imagine what Singer's end game was. He so badly wanted all that sort of family/romance drama, but I can't imagine a scenario that would've satisfied the audience. Certainly I think the ending of the movie was rubbish, and any sort of continuation of it would've almost certainly made things worse.
    No, it doesn't make it any better. Because he still just up and left without telling anyone, including Lois.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Or you could just keep Richard and ignore the love triangle.
    But for what purpose, other than to obfuscate the truth of Jason's paternity (which lets face it, everyone saw through anyway)? Remove him and the whole situation is cleaner.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
    But for what purpose, other than to obfuscate the truth of Jason's paternity (which lets face it, everyone saw through anyway)? Remove him and the whole situation is cleaner.
    And then what? Richard is out of the picture to what end? So Lois can get back together with a man who violated her mind and left a world he promised he'd protect? No thanks. She, Richard and Jason deserve better than that

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