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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    A deadbeat dad has unprotected sex with a woman and then flies off for years without thinking about it.
    Nope. It's a guy who knows full well about the kid, but will deliberately have no part in their lives nor support them, financially or otherwise. A guy who has unprotected sex with a woman (the love of his life in this case) and leaves without thinking about (or even saying goodbye) it is definitely a little reckless and a lot selfish, but it has absolutely nothing to do with a "deadbeat dad".

  2. #17
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Some people say vayce, other people say vahz. If a kid asks about his bio dad and the mom explains that the dude took off to go find himself as soon as she got pregnant, it's not going to sit well. "I didn't know about you" doesn't sound good at all.

    In this case we have a character who can fly at light speed and hear toast being buttered in Portugal from Oregon, so he must have taken off extremely quick in order to not notice anything about Lois and definitely didn't bother checking in. If he'd describe her as the love of his life, that's even worse. Deadbeat dad or not just seems like splitting hairs.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    If "deadbeat dad" doesn't give you the connotation you want to describe Kal-El in that movie, I think I'm perfectly fine calling him "absentee dad," and that irks me. I also just don't buy the implicit timeline of the movie, either. There was an interview from long ago where Singer readily admits that he just figured Lois remembered her whole escapade with Superman from Superman II, minus the Clark Kent = Superman part (problem, BTW). Also, Singer sells us a story that she was so in love with Superman, then Superman left Earth, then she met Richard, then got intimate with Richard soon enough that Richard believed that kid was his. It's practically suggesting that Superman II ended, and then the new info pertaining to Returns happened like 2 days after.

    While I largely resent this movie, and was generally warm to Man of Steel, I think I'd be more inclined to watch it on cable before I'd watch MoS. Maybe certain parts of the movie have hit "So bad it's good" status, whereas MoS is kind of blah. Also, the more I think about it, feels more directionless. You certainly may not agree, but I feel I know exactly what Singer tried to accomplish, whereas with Snyder I feel some uncertainty.

    Weird, I know.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    I've always wondered if some of the problems from this film would be resolved if Clark had actually accomplished something looking for Krypton. If he'd come back with the Bottle City of Kandor, then you'd at least have something tangible in exchange for the years he lost. As it is, he pretty much left the earth hanging for nothing. Granted, he couldn't know what would or wouldn't happen, but it makes the pill that much more bitter.

  5. #20
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I still find it amazing that somebody (a whole lot of somebodys, to be clear) thought a sequel to a director's cut of a movie from the 70s was a good idea for a film and gave it the green light.

  6. #21
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I go back and forth on SR. There are parts of it I absolutely adore ( the overall look and design,most of the casting . The few ACTION sequences we got) some things I absolutely dislike ( Bosworth as Lois, the idea of it being a sequel to Superman 2, Luthor's land scheme AGAIN.) and some things I don't have strong opinions on either way ( Superman having a kid), but in spite of it being a mixed bag and a disappointment overall, I'm grateful we did get the movie we got.

    For one, it allowed a clearing of the Deck that gave WB the courage to leave the Donner era of cinematic Superman behind for the most part. It also kept some of the truly abysmal ideas for Superman films from happening. ( Superman Flyby and latter versions of the Tim Burton version anyone?)

    I still am a little disappointed we didn't get to see Singers version of MOS. BRAINIAC was supposed to be the villain and it was supposed to be the Action picture many wished SR to be. In retrospect, it would have been better to start off the " trilogy" Singer invisioned with Superman Returning to stop Brainiac. The slower moving more relationship focused movie would have likely worked better for the sequel, with the third picture bringing all plot lines to a head. SR' s biggest sin was it was too slow and plodding and somber for what was supposed to be a film that announced Superman's return.

    Also, while I didn't mind the Donner references per say, it should have never been a sequel to Superman 2. I actually thought the idea that SMTM was supposed to be the origin story wasn't a bad one, with the other three films vaguely being in continuity, but that is where it should have stopped. They shouldn't have forced Routh to try and copy Reeve and they shouldn't have forced Spacey to be Hackman Lex.Keeping the John Williams theme and the visual iconography of Krypton from the previous movies and a few little Easter eggs scattered about to make people go " aha! I got that referrence" would have been great. But the continuity shouldn't have continued from 2. It should have been " OK, all those other Superman movies happened, but this is all sometime later. We are telling a new story now." Nostalgia is good in limited doses. SR was an overdose that not only you can't go home again, but perhaps you shouldn't even if you can.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 02-06-2017 at 12:17 PM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    I remember being crushed when the film came out that Spacey didn't get to play Luthor with more of a post-Crisis, S:TAS vibe.

  8. #23
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    That was singlehandedly the worst part, I literally can't say there's a better casting call than putting spacey as Luthor, and they didn't let him cut loose in any capacity. I'm actually fine with crashing new ideas, but to stack them on top of slavish devotion to the not so hot Donner stuff and let it out go down as one big mess like that got me.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    At least we will always have "WRONG!"

  10. #25
    Took me a while, I'm back Netherman14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    At least we will always have "WRONG!"
    Oh hell yes, one of the best actually good memes out there.
    Pull-List:

    DC: Batman: Damned, The Green Lantern. Young Justice. Wonder Twins

    Boom!: Ronin Samurai.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Some people say vayce, other people say vahz. If a kid asks about his bio dad and the mom explains that the dude took off to go find himself as soon as she got pregnant, it's not going to sit well. "I didn't know about you" doesn't sound good at all.

    In this case we have a character who can fly at light speed and hear toast being buttered in Portugal from Oregon, so he must have taken off extremely quick in order to not notice anything about Lois and definitely didn't bother checking in. If he'd describe her as the love of his life, that's even worse. Deadbeat dad or not just seems like splitting hairs.
    But it's still just plain not the same thing. Not even knowing someone's pregnant before you go away (and hell, if we're really splitting hairs, who's to say they DIDN'T have some form of protection, and it just failed, as is known to happen?) vs "Lois is pregnant?! Time to get the heck outta here!" is a totally different thing. There's no indication that Richard or Jason knew the truth (you'd think it'd have come up in the "Were you in love with him" scene if so), so "Where's my dad?" doesn't really come into the equation. For all we know, even Lois isn't sure until the piano incident.

    And "I didn't know about you" can hardly be pinned fully on him. It's far from ideal, and I have no problem with people taking issue with the whole story line as I have issues with it as well (he leaves for five years with pretty shaky reasoning and doesn't say goodbye), but that's a perfectly valid reason considering their unique circumstances. He DIDN'T know.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    A deadbeat dad has unprotected sex with a woman and then flies off for years without thinking about it.
    Do we know the timeframe of the conception in comparison to the time he left Earth? The movie kind of lampshades over that whole thing.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    To me, SR is a great Elseworlds but probably should not have been an official movie. And, yes, there are a lot of issues regarding things like the time frame of the pregnancy and whether or not Lois even knew who Chris's father really was all along. If she didn't, and the mindwipe thing still happened, Superman owes her an explanation but for the most part, I think these are things Singer may have just overlooked in the process of trying to get out a movie. And, yes, WB probably did need to "clear the deck" of the Donner movies in order to get a clean slate but I think most people would have understood in 2006 why the new franchise doesn't take place in the old universe. Singer jumping to Superman messed up two movie franchises. Superman and X-Men, though I don't necessarily blame Singer for Fox choosing to over-react to his departure.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  14. #29
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titansupes View Post
    who's to say they DIDN'T have some form of protection
    In the fortress? We can disagree, it's cool. If you like the movie I'm glad for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    Do we know the timeframe of the conception in comparison to the time he left Earth? The movie kind of lampshades over that whole thing.
    We don't, but like someone else mentioned it was a pretty wild turnaround if anyone came out thinking that Richard was the dad.

  15. #30
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    I made a cut for my own viewing that omits the kid subplot and Lois' relationship with Richard. Took a little pan and scan. The way it screens, Richard is a random chopper pilot Lois knows and the kid is his son. The chronology of events gets shuffled a lot.

    It focuses things considerably. The movie is purely about Lois being hurt that Superman didn't say goodbye and Superman winning her back.

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