Why are two of Batman's biggest love interests criminals?

[Frontier]

With Selina, there is a sense in which she's kinda a female version of him. An orphan with a tragic past who empowers herself by developing skills and carves her own path in Gotham City as an animal-themed masked prowler. Except that unlike him, she comes from a far less affluent background (well, in some versions) and carved that path for herself in the world of crime (at least initially).

They both operate in a grey area. Its just that Batman leans more towards upholding the law and Catwoman leans more towards being a criminal.

Tom King actually paints a pretty good picture of the inherent appeal they find in each other (even if the Bat and Cat stuff gets annoying after a while).

With Talia, I think its actually less to do with the 'Batman' side of things and more to do with 'Bruce Wayne'. Like him, she's the scion of a wealthy and powerful family (albeit on a global scale). She's a woman who wants to use her family's resources and her own skills and capabilities to carry out her mission and make a difference to the world as per her personal ideology, which is in some ways a variation of that of her father's, much like Bruce himself. And yes, she has a dark side, much like him.

So to sum it up - Catwoman is a somewhat darker female mirror to Batman. While Talia is kinda an extreme female version of Bruce Wayne.

I'm giving this a thumbs up .

[Lady Nightwing]

Yep but apparently not he spent a couple of panels in Batman Inc 13 making out with her instead of killing her for what she did. That really bugged me.

Huh. Talia, Bruce and Damian were very chummy in Robin Son of Batman. I had just assumed they retconed that. Gross. Bruce is disgusting. Catwoman is too good for him

[UnderTheRedHood]

It's kind of strange that a guy whose parents were murdered by criminals and dedicated his life to justice is mixed up with Talia and Catwoman.

Why isn't Batman trying to put Catwoman in prison every time he meets her? Because she's hot? That seems like a really bad reason and it makes Batman look like a major hypocrite.

Meanwhile Talia drugged and basically raped him to conceive a son and she is also involved in a world wide terrorist organization. But he is still (at times) presented as having some sort of feelings for her.

I don't get it.

Because Bruce himself is A Criminal.

RCO017_1484150193.jpg

Hes just A Very Helpful one. who is needed because Gotham's Judges, Mayor & PD are all terrible at their jobs lol

[Bat-Meal]

Because he has a type ?

I think does.

Interesting that Batman likes 'bad girls' (criminals), whilst his cousin Batwoman likes 'good girls' (GCPD).

Because Bruce himself is A Criminal.

The way they view themselves helps dictate who they feel they can relate to.

Batman in shades of grey, falls for women in shades of grey.

Batwoman still views herself as a soldier, duty bound to protect, in Gotham the next closest thing to another soldier is probably a police officer.

Tim and Steph, Dick and Babs, superheroes dating other superheroes (they view themselves as superheroes).

[fanfan13]

With Selina, there is a sense in which she's kinda a female version of him. An orphan with a tragic past who empowers herself by developing skills and carves her own path in Gotham City as an animal-themed masked prowler. Except that unlike him, she comes from a far less affluent background (well, in some versions) and carved that path for herself in the world of crime (at least initially).

They both operate in a grey area. Its just that Batman leans more towards upholding the law and Catwoman leans more towards being a criminal.

Tom King actually paints a pretty good picture of the inherent appeal they find in each other (even if the Bat and Cat stuff gets annoying after a while).

With Talia, I think its actually less to do with the 'Batman' side of things and more to do with 'Bruce Wayne'. Like him, she's the scion of a wealthy and powerful family (albeit on a global scale). She's a woman who wants to use her family's resources and her own skills and capabilities to carry out her mission and make a difference to the world as per her personal ideology, which is in some ways a variation of that of her father's, much like Bruce himself. And yes, she has a dark side, much like him.

So to sum it up - Catwoman is a somewhat darker female mirror to Batman. While Talia is kinda an extreme female version of Bruce Wayne.

Wow, great meta! I like it

Because Bruce himself is A Criminal.

Hes just A Very Helpful one. who is needed because Gotham's Judges, Mayor & PD are all terrible at their jobs lol

lol. And all of his boys have "died" once.

I guess the dark knight is bound to be attracted to the dark side after all.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Bruce doesn't always do the bad girls:

[Arnoldoaad]

And don't forget Jezebel she was bad as well.

yeah but he didnt knew she was bad until later

Also I would like to argue that something like this really depends of the point of time
as of right now his biggest love interest are Catwoman (because of Hush and other stories like that) and Talia (because or Morrison's run and Damian)

I would argue that possibly Vicky Vale was Batman's biggest love interest on the 90s because of the Tim Burton Movie
also lets not forget the original Batwoman
Silver St Cloud on the 70s
Sasha Bordeaux during the very early 2000s
and Julie Madison on the Golden Age and then again even recently durring Snyder's Batman


and there is more the only big difference with them and Selina & Talia is that they have stuck arround for different reasons
1 of course very importantly because they are villains and that one of the big things that always comes back with Batman, and much more than its recurring characters s Batman always switch them around.

The only thing that is necesry is a reason to stick in the mythos, Catwoman did that, and Talia got that too relatively recently and again because of Damian.

If for example Julie Madison came back into the picture and reveal to be pregnant because of what happen during Snyder's Superheavy/Bloom storyline then I would argue that the concept of this thread is wrong and no, not all biggest love interest of Bruce are criminals.

[oasis1313]

Bruce really doesn't have time to seriously court NICE GIRLS.

[theoneandonly]

well it may be because he likes all of his relationships to have a element of masochism.

[bat39]

yeah but he didnt knew she was bad until later

Also I would like to argue that something like this really depends of the point of time
as of right now his biggest love interest are Catwoman (because of Hush and other stories like that) and Talia (because or Morrison's run and Damian)

I would argue that possibly Vicky Vale was Batman's biggest love interest on the 90s because of the Tim Burton Movie
also lets not forget the original Batwoman
Silver St Cloud on the 70s
Sasha Bordeaux during the very early 2000s
and Julie Madison on the Golden Age and then again even recently durring Snyder's Batman


and there is more the only big difference with them and Selina & Talia is that they have stuck arround for different reasons
1 of course very importantly because they are villains and that one of the big things that always comes back with Batman, and much more than its recurring characters s Batman always switch them around.

The only thing that is necesry is a reason to stick in the mythos, Catwoman did that, and Talia got that too relatively recently and again because of Damian.

If for example Julie Madison came back into the picture and reveal to be pregnant because of what happen during Snyder's Superheavy/Bloom storyline then I would argue that the concept of this thread is wrong and no, not all biggest love interest of Bruce are criminals.

The interesting thing about Julie, Vicky, Silver and all the other 'nice, normal girls' that Batman has been involved with is that they are all representative of the kind of life a part of Bruce Wayne wants, but knows he can never really have. He gets involved with them either to present a semblance of normalcy to the world, or as a desperate but doomed attempt to cling to some kind of normalcy himself - knowing it will likely fail.

Julie Madison is someone Bruce has typically dated at the start of his career as Batman. And it made sense there - at this early point in time, Bruce still hasn't fully been subsumed by the the Batman and still believes at some level that he might someday be able to work through his issues, save Gotham and hang up the cowl. (Zero Year memorably ends with Bruce rejecting the possibility of a normal life with Julie the moment he realizes that he can or won't ever quit being Batman). The one time the relationship between her and Bruce became serious and long-term was post-Endgame, when Bruce got amnesia and essentially lost the 'Batman' part of himself. The moment Batman was back, Julie was out of the picture (and not just because of memory loss).

The same thing kinda happened to Vicky Vale in Burton's Batman. Bruce wanted to pursue a relationship with her, to cling on to some form of normalcy. And it seems he succeeded...for a while. But as we learn in 'Returns', Vicky eventually couldn't cope with Bruce's dual life as Batman and the relationship ended. This in fact mirrors his relationship with Silver St. Cloud in the comics as well.

Hell, take the Nolanverse. Rachel Dawes was supposed to be the love of Bruce's life but she made it clear she couldn't be with him until he hung up the cowl. Granted, Nolanverse Bruce, unlike his comic-book counterpart, was pretty clear that he would hang up the cowl someday - unfortunately by the time he could, Rachel was gone. And Bruce spent eight years (as far as we know) not being involved with another 'normal' woman like Rachel because deep down inside he still hadn't gotten over being Batman.

To my knowledge, there has never been a version of the Batman mythos where Bruce settles down eventually with a 'normal' woman. Well, maybe the Generations series (but we don't know who he married in that verse) and even there at some point he ends up with Talia for a bit. And I think the Silver Age 'Super Sons' series had him marry Batwoman - who while not a criminal, is far from a 'normal' woman.

[kurenai24]

Batman's biggest love interests are criminals b/c DC wants to keep pushing the idea that batman can't have any normalcy in his life, that's why most if not all of his civilian girlfriends have been fridged.

That's why DC hasn't pushed batman with any female superheroes as writers would be unable to fridge them as they should be able to defend themselves, basically eliminating the shitty love life problem batman has.

The batman office also wants these femme fatales to show readers that Batman is desirable, but they're not what society sees as normal which is what he seeks so it's untraditional but also he has real love for them but they're from the wrong tracks and it goes against his morals so it's wrong; basically DC uses them for their agenda and writers use them as a crutch so they can keep rehashing the same storyline without actually thinking of exploring something new with this character.

[Starrius]

shrugs
because they are popular with the fans

create a poll about his most popular love interest

[Rac7d*]

Batigrl because she isnt legal

[pansy]

Batigrl because she isnt legal

in Batman Beyond?

[Vinsanity]

Bring back Silver St. Cloud