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  1. #1
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    Hello everyone! First time poster! I figured you all are the ones with the collective knowledge to know the DC Universe front and back and would have the answers to my questions

    1) Is Kal-L (Earth 2 Pre-COIE) the Superman from Action Comics #1? If so, then Superboy PRIME killed the original Superman?

    2) What caused (in universe) the change between Superman's origins in Man of Steel to follow Birthright instead?

    3) With Convergence happening and the insinuation that all of the previous incarnations of the multiverse were restored, is it likely that "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" is now the canon end to Silver Age Superman?

    4) How does Convergence work with Multiversity? Why was only Multiversity included in Superman: Multiplicity?

    5) I'm trying to backtrack and collect events that I feel were important and universe changing (with a couple of ones I just want to read like Death of Superman and Blackest Night). In so doing I am wanting to read these comics in "chronological order" but am getting a little confused about some comics.

    For instance, is Flash Futures End 1 & 2 the same as Flash #39 and 40 (from the Savage World New 52 Volume)? And did those issues happen before or after Futures End?

    6) Silly Question - Were the Gods from Olympus untouched by Dr. Manhattan (opinion)? Would that mean that Earth 2 Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman would still be around?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    Hello everyone! First time poster! I figured you all are the ones with the collective knowledge to know the DC Universe front and back and would have the answers to my questions

    1) Is Kal-L (Earth 2 Pre-COIE) the Superman from Action Comics #1? If so, then Superboy PRIME killed the original Superman?

    2) What caused (in universe) the change between Superman's origins in Man of Steel to follow Birthright instead?

    3) With Convergence happening and the insinuation that all of the previous incarnations of the multiverse were restored, is it likely that "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" is now the canon end to Silver Age Superman?

    4) How does Convergence work with Multiversity? Why was only Multiversity included in Superman: Multiplicity?

    5) I'm trying to backtrack and collect events that I feel were important and universe changing (with a couple of ones I just want to read like Death of Superman and Blackest Night). In so doing I am wanting to read these comics in "chronological order" but am getting a little confused about some comics.

    For instance, is Flash Futures End 1 & 2 the same as Flash #39 and 40 (from the Savage World New 52 Volume)? And did those issues happen before or after Futures End?

    6) Silly Question - Were the Gods from Olympus untouched by Dr. Manhattan (opinion)? Would that mean that Earth 2 Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman would still be around?
    Im not obsessed about continuity, and considering Rebirth created some (unexplained) changes in continuity that dont make much sense I think it's a lot easier that way.

    1) Yeah, that was golden age Supes. And yeah, he died in Infinite Crisis killed by psycho superboy.
    2) Don't know, but it sounds editorial.
    3) I wouldn't call a story like that "canon" in any situation.
    4) You have to consider that Grant Morrison might not give a single shit about Convergence. BUT, let's say the do have a connection... one of the concepts Morrison brought up in Multiversity was the "local" multiverse, and Convergence implies that more than one Multiverse exist (which means some of the cities from Convergence might belong to other Multiverses and time-lines), so Superman: Multiplicity only considered the LOCAL Multiverse. Two thing about Superman: Multiplicity, tho: 1) Grant Morrison left 7 earths as Unknown. Tomasi and Gleason just revealed Earth 14, which is inhabited by the Justice League of Assassins. Will Morrison consider this as part of his next Multiversity work? Who knows... we do know he tends to not care about continuity and what other writers do. 2) They kept calling Earth-0 "New Earth", which to me just means "lousy editorial work". What's my point? Don't worry TOO MUCH about continuity and universes cuz sometimes it just doesnt make sense, mainly bc coordinating all writers and editors seems like an imposible job.
    5) Do you mean "Convergence: The Flash"? NOT ONE hero from Earth-0 (from the present, of course) was directly involved in any of the Convergence tie-ins. Both Flash Convergence books featured Pre COIE Barry and PRe-Flashpoint Wally.
    6) Who knows. They just erased everything Brian Azarello did on WW, so anything is posible. I would not hope to see much "pre-crisis" stuff, tho.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks, those really help!

    On #5, I wasn't talking about Convergence but two issues that had lenticular covers everything that were released as Flash Futures End #s 1 & 2. The stories were about Future Barry. I am just not sure if they were their own issues outside the normal Flash comics or of they were the same as Flash #s 39 & 40.

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    1) Is Kal-L (Earth 2 Pre-COIE) the Superman from Action Comics #1? If so, then Superboy PRIME killed the original Superman?
    He's based on the original Superman (but so are all others); however, there are some key distinctions between Earth-Two Superman and the Superman seen in the '30s and '40s.

    2) What caused (in universe) the change between Superman's origins in Man of Steel to follow Birthright instead?

    Not sure, but snce Mark Waid was involved it was probably an effect of Hypetime. Superman did go back to the beginning of time when he fought Imperiex in Our Worlds at War.

    3) With Convergence happening and the insinuation that all of the previous incarnations of the multiverse were restored, is it likely that "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" is now the canon end to Silver Age Superman?
    I don't think so.



    6) Silly Question - Were the Gods from Olympus untouched by Dr. Manhattan (opinion)? Would that mean that Earth 2 Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman would still be around?
    She would be a star in the heavens then, as the gods put her up there with Steve.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    He's based on the original Superman (but so are all others); however, there are some key distinctions between Earth-Two Superman and the Superman seen in the '30s and '40s.
    I was wondering why there was the whole connecting him to be the older version of Kal-El but only one website I found directly stated he was Action Comics #1 Superman. So he would be kinda the prototype/template for other Supermen.

    It would be kinda fun for them to reveal that Action Comics #1 Superman has been around, untouched by the multiverse all of this time in a cool little one-off adventure. Make him some kind of godlike Superman. Haha
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Not sure, but snce Mark Waid was involved it was probably an effect of Hypertime. Superman did go back to the beginning of time when he fought Imperiex in Our Worlds at War.
    Oh, that connection makes a ton of sense. I can definitely see Waid doing that since (from what I've read) he really wanted Hypertime adopted by the whole company, especially adding that to Our Worlds at War. Headcanon added Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I don't think so.
    I kinda figured. Haha! Well, I can always keep it as my unofficial end to Silver Age Supes. That was the spirit behind Hypertime, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    She would be a star in the heavens then, as the gods put her up there with Steve.
    Ah, yes. That makes sense. ^_^

    Thank you guys so much for your help. ^_^ The only thing I would want further clarification on, then, would be Futures End #1 & 2 and if that is included in the trade publication "Savage World". I think it is the same as New 52 Flash #s 39 & 40, but there is so little information (that I have found) that I'm just kinda confused.

    And a new question... Why does it seem that DC was going full bore into Watchmen vs DC and then started backing off from it? I mean, it feels like it was pretty obvious Mr. Oz was Ozymandius but now they are alluding to it not being him. I've seen some cool theories on this board about it being pre-Flashpoint Lex or other cool things like that, which I personally wouldn't mind, but... the connection between Watchmen and Rebirth seems to be buried more and more. What, in your guys' opinions and experience with past company wide events, would be some possible reasons for this?

    Another question I thought of while typing the previous... it appeared as if with Convergence and the short series called Lois & Clark that they had originally intended for pre-Flashpoint Lois, Clark, and Jon to be truly separate entities from New 52 Lois & Clark but somewhere along the way they decided to do this whole convoluted thing with them being somehow connected and that New 52 was always the pre-Flashpoint universe. Do you guys think this change was done just to appease the fans and have them happy that their old universe is still there, just tampered? So they could technically say this isn't a reboot? These are my thoughts and I wanted to see if the veterans (I've only been reading into comics for about a year) had a different/better perspective on it than that.

    Once again, thanks for the replies so far! I'm really getting into these comics and loving the storylines and intricate history DC has created and excited to speak with you all in this community!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    I was wondering why there was the whole connecting him to be the older version of Kal-El but only one website I found directly stated he was Action Comics #1 Superman. So he would be kinda the prototype/template for other Supermen.

    It would be kinda fun for them to reveal that Action Comics #1 Superman has been around, untouched by the multiverse all of this time in a cool little one-off adventure. Make him some kind of godlike Superman. Haha

    Oh, that connection makes a ton of sense. I can definitely see Waid doing that since (from what I've read) he really wanted Hypertime adopted by the whole company, especially adding that to Our Worlds at War. Headcanon added Thanks!

    I kinda figured. Haha! Well, I can always keep it as my unofficial end to Silver Age Supes. That was the spirit behind Hypertime, right?

    Ah, yes. That makes sense. ^_^

    Thank you guys so much for your help. ^_^ The only thing I would want further clarification on, then, would be Futures End #1 & 2 and if that is included in the trade publication "Savage World". I think it is the same as New 52 Flash #s 39 & 40, but there is so little information (that I have found) that I'm just kinda confused.

    And a new question... Why does it seem that DC was going full bore into Watchmen vs DC and then started backing off from it? I mean, it feels like it was pretty obvious Mr. Oz was Ozymandius but now they are alluding to it not being him. I've seen some cool theories on this board about it being pre-Flashpoint Lex or other cool things like that, which I personally wouldn't mind, but... the connection between Watchmen and Rebirth seems to be buried more and more. What, in your guys' opinions and experience with past company wide events, would be some possible reasons for this?

    Another question I thought of while typing the previous... it appeared as if with Convergence and the short series called Lois & Clark that they had originally intended for pre-Flashpoint Lois, Clark, and Jon to be truly separate entities from New 52 Lois & Clark but somewhere along the way they decided to do this whole convoluted thing with them being somehow connected and that New 52 was always the pre-Flashpoint universe. Do you guys think this change was done just to appease the fans and have them happy that their old universe is still there, just tampered? So they could technically say this isn't a reboot? These are my thoughts and I wanted to see if the veterans (I've only been reading into comics for about a year) had a different/better perspective on it than that.

    Once again, thanks for the replies so far! I'm really getting into these comics and loving the storylines and intricate history DC has created and excited to speak with you all in this community!
    There was a "Flash: Futures End" #1, and then there were "Flash" issues #39 and #40. None of these are the same thing, although I do not know what "Flash: Futures End #2" would be.

    The creative people often change their minds on things as things go along. I do think they decided that a slow reveal over a couple of years regarding the Watchmen connection to the current universe would be better.

    Yes, I think the "renewed" connections between pre-Flashpoint and New52 are just hyperbole to make the DC "fans" who left with the New52 come back under the notion that "it's really all the same thing and connected".

    Regarding the earlier Earth 2/Golden Age Superman question, the specifics are that in the Golden Age, sometimes Clark worked for the Daily Star, sometimes for the Daily Planet. Sometimes he worked for Perry White, sometimes for George Taylor. Sometimes he was Kal-L, sometimes he was Kal-El. Superboy as a character was introduced in the Golden Age. So the "Golden Age Superman" is a fluid thing. It wasn't until much later when they decided to implement the "Earth 1/Earth 2" concept onto Superman that they went back and assigned the Earth 2 Superman certain characteristics (Kal-EL, working at the Daily Star for George Taylor, was never Superboy). So that's why it's not really accurate to say they are the exact same character.

  7. #7
    Took me a while, I'm back Netherman14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    There was a "Flash: Futures End" #1, and then there were "Flash" issues #39 and #40. None of these are the same thing, although I do not know what "Flash: Futures End #2" would be.

    The creative people often change their minds on things as things go along. I do think they decided that a slow reveal over a couple of years regarding the Watchmen connection to the current universe would be better.

    Yes, I think the "renewed" connections between pre-Flashpoint and New52 are just hyperbole to make the DC "fans" who left with the New52 come back under the notion that "it's really all the same thing and connected".

    Regarding the earlier Earth 2/Golden Age Superman question, the specifics are that in the Golden Age, sometimes Clark worked for the Daily Star, sometimes for the Daily Planet. Sometimes he worked for Perry White, sometimes for George Taylor. Sometimes he was Kal-L, sometimes he was Kal-El. Superboy as a character was introduced in the Golden Age. So the "Golden Age Superman" is a fluid thing. It wasn't until much later when they decided to implement the "Earth 1/Earth 2" concept onto Superman that they went back and assigned the Earth 2 Superman certain characteristics (Kal-EL, working at the Daily Star for George Taylor, was never Superboy). So that's why it's not really accurate to say they are the exact same character.
    So, it's a trap?

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    Also, I think the explanation for Earth-Two Superman's powers (and Power Girl's) was the same as for Earth-One Superman--difference in gravity + sun. Whereas, SUPERMAN No. 1 (1939) gives a different explanation--no sun connection, but difference in gravity + superhuman on Krypton.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherman14 View Post
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