Superwoman #7 - Spoilers

[spirit2011]

No one said there was a boycott.

It was said sabotaged not boycotted, so where is boycott just read sabotage on my post. IDK where I took sabotaged

There was nothing wrong with the SM/WW romance, could've been written better, sure, but online bashing didn't reflect sells until Tomasi took over and even supporters of the book, me included, didn't like his direction...also, if it was so bad, DC wouldn't still be using it in other things outside of comics. If the old status quo was so much loved etc, convergence should've done so much better and the highly anticipated Lois and Clark mini. As of now, Action Comics shouldn't be basically back at new52 level.

New 52 Superman was younger and unrelatable to the older fans who think he should just have this "father figure"/ grandfather persona. Who THEY grew up with, not considering a new generation of readers who could grow with new52 with a different non-predictable path.

Back on topic, I hope Lana doesn't really die just take her powers away if need be.

where SMWW is being used out of comics? only on animation because it has to be done 2-3 years before release. DC/Warner really seems to not support it anymore

Action isn't back at pre new 52 levels

[LoveStar]

It was said sabotaged not boycotted, so where is boycott just read sabotage on my post. IDK where I took sabotaged



where SMWW is being used out of comics? only on animation because it has to be done 2-3 years before release. DC/Warner really seems to not support it anymore

Action isn't back at pre new 52 levels

Recently, coloring books, puzzles, new belt line from hot topic, and other liscensed apperal. new52 design is still promoted at amusement parks such as six flags. Even advertising posters, and even going smaller to little kids snacks and little action figures.

Action hasn't gone back to pre52 but new52 more or less yes. The only book that's a bit better is Tomasi/Gleason Superman.

[FishyZombie]

There was nothing wrong with the SM/WW romance, could've been written better, sure, but online bashing didn't reflect sells until Tomasi took over and even supporters of the book, me included, didn't like his direction...also, if it was so bad, DC wouldn't still be using it in other things outside of comics. If the old status quo was so much loved etc, convergence should've done so much better and the highly anticipated Lois and Clark mini. As of now, Action Comics shouldn't be basically back at new52 level.

New 52 Superman was younger and unrelatable to the older fans who think he should just have this "father figure"/ grandfather persona. Who THEY grew up with, not considering a new generation of readers who could grow with new52 with a different non-predictable path.

Back on topic, I hope Lana doesn't really die just take her powers away if need be.

since when is 5 years a generation? He wasn't around nearly long enough for anybody to "grow" up with.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

since when is 5 years a generation? He wasn't around nearly long enough for anybody to "grow" up with.

I was about to say the same thing.

[LoveStar]

since when is 5 years a generation? He wasn't around nearly long enough for anybody to "grow" up with.

New52 brought in new readers... and younger at that. Starting from the very beginning. That's essentially your "new generation". And that's the point... New52 Superman couldn't grow like pre52. So the readers who started with this new beginning, who actually liked him and connected with him couldn't "grow" with him because he was cut short.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

New52 brought in new readers... and younger at that. Starting from the very beginning. That's essentially your "new generation". And that's the point... New52 Superman couldn't grow like pre52. So the readers who started with this new beginning, who actually liked him and connected with him couldn't "grow" with him because he was cut short.

Actually, they did a survey not long after the New 52. It turned out that the New 52 really didn't bring in all that many new readers. Only about 5% of people reading DC at that time turned out to be completely new to comics. The other 95% were either reading DC before the New 52 or had been lapsed DC fans who simply saw the New 52 as a way to jump back in. Either way, 95% of the DC readership did NOT "grow up" with the New 52, nor would they have if the New 52 had gone on. The Superman that they grew up with and wanted back was the Pre-Flashpoint Superman.

http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-...rship-93-male/

[manofsteel1979]

Actually, they did a survey not long after the New 52. It turned out that the New 52 really didn't bring in all that many new readers. Only about 5% of people reading DC at that time turned out to be completely new to comics. The other 95% were either reading DC before the New 52 or had been lapsed DC fans who simply saw the New 52 as a way to jump back in. Either way, 95% of the DC readership did NOT "grow up" with the New 52, nor would they have if the New 52 had gone on. The Superman that they grew up with and wanted back was the Pre-Flashpoint Superman.

http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-...rship-93-male/

And I'd bet that even if it did bring in some significant number of " new" readers, judging from the sales, not many have been that put off by the change over.of course there are a few, that's a given, but if sales are supposed to be right around what they were for some books prior to the switch over ( some people are saying ACTION is back to those numbers, although they are still better than Action's numbers at it's lowest point during the Savage Dawn arc ) well, the supposed new fans that came aboard with the New 52 that pumped up those early years of the New 52 's numbers had long left, and for Superman, that was even BEFORE Truth "sabotaged " Nuperman. I don't doubt it didn't help matters , but to pretend Superman sales were great and solid until mean ol' Dan Jurgens and Geoff Johns set out to take away SM/WW from the supposed legions of new readers and sabotage Nuperman to push Jon Kent as the new Star of Superman comics ( or so the conspiracy theory goes) ,is ignoring the fact that sales for Superman three years into the New 52 weren't all that great, and we're slowly but surely falling back to the numbers we had in 2011.

The only reason numbers hadn't completely collapsed was that Superman Unchained, which was essentially Pre 52 Superman in New 52 packaging, was still being published (sporadically, but sales were higher than the other Superbooks on average), they put Johns and Romita on Superman as a stunt, and of course the never ending crossovers that always inflate sales to a degree.
( Perhaps that is why the SUPERMAN books were in constant crossover mode for 4 years straight. Hmmm)

Also factor in that the SUPERMAN books haven't had any crossovers the last 6 months, and that while the creative teams are well regarded professionally, none of the names involved are Superstars In the way that Grant Morrison,Jim Lee, Scott Snyder , Geoff Johns and John Romita are, AND with a status quo and continuity that at the moment is not completely clear ,AND the fact ACTION and SUPERMAN are being double shipped, requiring readers to fork over 12 dollars a month on average compared to 8 dollars to follow those core books, factor all of that in, and the Superman books as a whole ARE doing significantly better than their New 52 counterparts.

I'm not claiming things are perfect now and that sales perhaps shouldnt be a bit better at this point for some books, but the vast majority of comic readers whether they are newbies or old fogies like me, don't really care which characters are shipped or that every piece of continuity is in place or not. All they care about is good stories. You give them good stories they will stay. Give them crap, they leave. Simple mathmatics. SUPERMAN is giving good stories. Sales are good. ACTION could do better. Sales have slipped. Nuperman stories, if they weren't written by Grant Morrison or Greg Pak, honestly,were mostly crap. That is why sales tanked. If they had actually put effort into Nuperman a few years ago when it mattered, let Pak do his thing without interference,things may be different now, but as we know that didn't happen. It is what it is.

I see the sales numbers and the stories linked from bleeding Cool on other threads as " proof" REBIRTH is a failure and that sales would be gangbusters if they just stayed the course with Nuperman. Apparently there is a lack of basic reading comprehension as whilst those articles do point out rightfully the Rebirth sales bump was smaller than the bump for New 52, the overall attrition 6 months in is far smaller, meaning overall, Rebirth is working and generally speaking the books have fallen into a stable sales pattern.

[spirit2011]

Recently, coloring books, puzzles, new belt line from hot topic, and other liscensed apperal. new52 design is still promoted at amusement parks such as six flags. Even advertising posters, and even going smaller to little kids snacks and little action figures.

Action hasn't gone back to pre52 but new52 more or less yes. The only book that's a bit better is Tomasi/Gleason Superman.

All those were deals before DC solved to end it, never saw any of them on stores and websites I go. For the look of it, it failed badly to make a impression to greater public.

it is double shipping, so it won't reach new52 levels so soon

Actually, they did a survey not long after the New 52. It turned out that the New 52 really didn't bring in all that many new readers. Only about 5% of people reading DC at that time turned out to be completely new to comics. The other 95% were either reading DC before the New 52 or had been lapsed DC fans who simply saw the New 52 as a way to jump back in. Either way, 95% of the DC readership did NOT "grow up" with the New 52, nor would they have if the New 52 had gone on. The Superman that they grew up with and wanted back was the Pre-Flashpoint Superman.

http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-...rship-93-male/

I know right? I started reading superman books on new52 and then dropped it like it was hot
(it wasn't hot anyway)

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I'm not claiming things are perfect now and that sales perhaps shouldnt be a bit better at this point for some books, but the vast majority of comic readers whether they are newbies or old fogies like me, don't really care which characters are shipped or that every piece of continuity is in place or not. All they care about is good stories. You give them good stories they will stay. Give them crap, they leave. Simple mathmatics. SUPERMAN is giving good stories. Sales are good. ACTION could do better. Sales have slipped. Nuperman stories, if they weren't written by Grant Morrison or Greg Pak, honestly,were mostly crap. That is why sales tanked. If they had actually put effort into Nuperman a few years ago when it mattered, let Pak do his thing without interference,things may be different now, but as we know that didn't happen. It is what it is.

I was telling people that the version of the character starring the flagship books mattered little to most readers after the sales for Lois & Clark were out.

But some fans of each version of the character think one version has a bigger audience than the other.

What we're seeing now is similar to what occurred with the New 52. Action was received well, and it sold well (plus Morrison helped, which is why sales were higher than where 'Superman' is at now. If it wasn't Morrison but some other writer that wasn't a big name, I would guarantee that sales would be on the level of 'Superman'.). 'Superman' was not received well, so sales slipped at a greater rate.

The version of the character matters little when it comes to sales.

[LoveStar]

All those were deals before DC solved to end it, never saw any of them on stores and websites I go. For the look of it, it failed badly to make a impression to greater public.

it is double shipping, so it won't reach new52 levels so soon

DC had new52 "ending" start October of 2015 or as far back as before or during convergence. A deal can be changed though but these deals are still being made/accepted now. You can check Amazon, actual hot topic site, social site, especially one such as instagram showing these things in different areas all over. It didn't fail badly, if more energy and thought was put into new52 as a whole instead of holding on to "not my..." it would've been so much a problem.

Action is tracking more or less the same, even with double shipping.
Also: http://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-...tive-variants/

[durabill]

But for me, and maybe other that would prefer New 52 Superman going forward, there were good Superman stories in his first (and now only) five years, while for Post-Crisis Superman, I didn't think any of the stories in his first five years were good. I'd say that until maybe seven years into the character, there weren't any stories in the main Superman books that I'd consider good..

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there.
The first five years of the Post-Crises Superman were Awesome!!!

I'll defend what Byrne, Wolfman, Ordway, Perez, Jurgans, Stern, Gammil, Mcleod, Grummet, Simonson, Bogdanove, etc.. did on these issues as some of the better Superman stories in the last 30 years..

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I'm not claiming things are perfect now and that sales perhaps shouldnt be a bit better at this point for some books, but the vast majority of comic readers whether they are newbies or old fogies like me, don't really care which characters are shipped or that every piece of continuity is in place or not. All they care about is good stories.

Well, to be fair, people like me WANT to see the majority (if not all) of Pre-Flashpoint continuity in place. IMO, DC is best when it EMBRACES its history, not when it shies away from it. That's what was so great about things like the Meltzer JLA run and Infinite Crisis and 52 (the good one, not the "New" one) and Grant Morrison's Batman run. They completely embraced the inherent wackiness of the Silver Age and Bronze Age eras of DC and played on those old stories and used them to enrich the stories being told today. And you didn't have to read those old comics to appreciate it, but you at least had to have a respect for the history of DC Comics.

That's what I feel was wrong with moves like the New 52 and demonstrated the stark divide between people like Didio and people like Levitz. The New 52 acted like DC's history and old continuity was something to be embarrassed and ashamed of, without regard to the fact that that history was the exact thing that attracted readers to the company. And that, IMO, signals that Didio didn't (and still doesn't) even have confidence in the characters that had been mainstays of pop culture for decades. To him, Superman wasn't worth investing in unless you ignored all that "boring" stuff where he acts like a "boy scout." So, they decided to make him single and dress him like a Transformer.

Levitz really understood how the history of DC enriched the stories being told today. Something like the New 52 would never have happened under him.

[stephens2177]

Well, to be fair, people like me WANT to see the majority (if not all) of Pre-Flashpoint continuity in place. IMO, DC is best when it EMBRACES its history, not when it shies away from it. That's what was so great about things like the Meltzer JLA run and Infinite Crisis and 52 (good one, not the "New" one) and Grant Morrison's Batman run. They completely embraced the inherent wackiness of the Silver Age and Bronze Age eras of DC and played on those old stories and used them to enrich the stories being told today. And you didn't have to read those old comics to appreciate it, but you at least had to have a respect for the history of DC Comics.

That's what I feel was wrong with moves like the New 52 and demonstrated the stark divide between people like Didio and people like Levitz. The New 52 acted like DC's history and old continuity was something to be embarrassed and ashamed of, without regard to the fact that that history was the exact thing that attracted readers to the company. And that, IMO, signals that Didio didn't (and still doesn't) even have confidence in the characters that had been mainstays of pop culture for decades. To him, Superman wasn't worth investing in unless you ignored all that "boring" stuff where he acts like a "boy scout." So, they decided to make him single and dress him like a Transformer.

Levitz really understood how the history of DC enriched the stories being told today. Something like the New 52 would never have happened under him.

It wasn't a bad idea restarting,and it was a bad idea to put a alien in a alien malleable suit,or make him single at such a young age.it was the way they wrote the bad stories,and how they completely changed origins and personalities(like kon-el).

Just de aging a character isn't a sin,but it is a sin to change said character into something they are not,just for change sake

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

It wasn't a bad idea restarting,and it was a bad idea to put a alien in a alien malleable suit,or make him single at such a young age.it was the way they wrote the bad stories,and how they completely changed origins and personalities(like kon-el).

Just de aging a character isn't a sin,but it is a sin to change said character into something they are not,just for change sake

Depends on your definition of "restarting." Marvel did a "restart" with the original Marvel NOW! in that they set up the characters in a new status quo but they did NOT wipe any of their history away. And then, by any measure, Marvel crushed DC doing so. Reboots within one form of media, as a general matter, are never a good idea. They simply cause all sorts of confusion and alienate the fanbase. Shaking up the status quo, however, can be a welcome change. Just don't forget the history that brought your character to that point.

[stephens2177]

Depends on your definition of "restarting." Marvel did a "restart" with the original Marvel NOW! in that they set up the characters in a new status quo but they did NOT wipe any of their history away. And then, by any measure, Marvel crushed DC doing so. Reboots within one form of media, as a general matter, are never a good idea. They simply cause all sorts of confusion and alienate the fanbase. Shaking up the status quo, however, can be a welcome change. Just don't forget the history that brought your character to that point.

How about a de aging of ppl and time,but total knowledge of everything before.kinda like the movie BIG with Tom Hanks,but on a total universe level.

Ppl would be pissed,and still.trying together back their lives.

I don't know