Superwoman #7 - Spoilers

[stephens2177]

Reed and Sue Richards have been parents to Franklin for literally almost 50 years. Dick Grayson has also been a twenty-something-year-old for over 30 years. LOL. I don't think keeping Superman at the age he is currently and just keeping Jon as a child is going to be a problem for DC in the long term.

Reed and sue are not old,they are around the same age as they were when they were created,maybe by a few years,and Nightwing is still young.

I said stay young,not age,my favorite character Kon aged,but he probably won't be getting any older than dicks age by the time a new reboot starts.

Superman and Lois will NOT age "much" more than they are now,Jon might age,maybe to dicks age,which would be a stretch,but aging characters,that actually get OLD get de aged that's how it works.

I'm just saying that New 52 is a move that's going to be looked at with vitriol and hatred, and deservedly so.

Reel it in buddy,I liked some of new 52,lots I didn't,but it came and went,let's not kick a dead horse ok

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

And you'll be wrong. manofsteel is more on the right track. it will simply be viewed as an era. A shorter era, but an era. With those who liked it, those who didn't, those who don't really care. You'll view it with hatred, but you're not looking at much beyond yourself to actually claim it going down in history as you feel. And before you say it, no, your feeling is not confirmed as any sort of majority thus it holds no greater or lesser weight. Some liked it, some were ambivalent to it as well. There was a whole host of opinions, and there's no way of telling which feeling was majority or if there even was a majority. Its impossible to tally, thus goofy to even argue.

I'd say the market share numbers near the end there certainly spoke for themselves. Maybe not hatred, but definitely regret.

[Sacred Knight]

Well if we're going to use sales as an indicator, basically that would indicate people dug the New 52 for a about four out of five years. Something tells me that's still a narrative some people wouldn't like to accept. But again, when you're looking at a general consensus of an era, sales alone probably aren't going to write that story either. Only time will tell and like I said, that's impossible to tally up.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Well if we're going to use sales as an indicator, basically that would indicate people dug the New 52 for a about four out of five years. Something tells me that's still a narrative some people wouldn't like to accept. But again, when you're looking at a general consensus of an era, sales alone probably aren't going to write that story either. Only time will tell and like I said, that's impossible to tally up.

More like a few months. And then Marvel regained the lead and it really didn't take long for DC's books to go back to Pre-Flashpoint levels. Its what people feared it was going to be at the very beginning: a temporary sales bump. Yeah, that was totally worth ruining their universe over.

[Last Son of Krypton]

This Rebirth vs new52 sales debate is getting ridiculous: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02...vs-dc-rebirth/

[Sacred Knight]

More like a few months. And then Marvel regained the lead and it really didn't take long for DC's books to go back to Pre-Flashpoint levels. Its what people feared it was going to be at the very beginning: a temporary sales bump. Yeah, that was totally worth ruining their universe over.

Marvel regaining a lead is not an indicator over what someone likes. Which basically proves my point. There's no way to tally this. In the end all you're doing is printing your own obviously rampant hatred onto what will eventually be its "legacy" or whatever. And that'll very likely not be the case. Or at the very least cannot possibly be quantified right now. You're saying it'll be hated and regretted because you hate it and regret it and want that to be its permanent marker. Nothing more.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Marvel regaining a lead is not an indicator over what someone likes. Which basically proves my point. There's no way to tally this. In the end all you're doing is printing your own obviously rampant hatred onto what will eventually be its "legacy" or whatever. And that'll very likely not be the case. Or at the very least cannot possibly be quantified right now. You're saying it'll be hated and regretted because you hate it and regret it and want that to be its permanent marker. Nothing more.

And? I have a right to criticize it and regard it my own way, do I not? I do view it with regret. And I think the fact that DC is trying to further itself from the New 52 changes it set up means that at least some of the senior management does as well. Hopefully, that management changes at some point and we're able to get back what was lost.

You can disagree with that sentiment, but I can post that I think it was a terrible move and one that will be remembered as being terrible, just like Heroes Reborn at Marvel is remembered as such. My posting that opinion doesn't take away from your opinion.

[brucekent12]

Bottom line, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and can post it on a message board if he or she wants to, but just because its said on a message board doesn't mean it cant be respectful! and for a post about Superwoman 7, aren't we a little of base?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Reed and sue are not old,they are around the same age as they were when they were created,maybe by a few years,and Nightwing is still young.

I said stay young,not age,my favorite character Kon aged,but he probably won't be getting any older than dicks age by the time a new reboot starts.

Superman and Lois will NOT age "much" more than they are now,Jon might age,maybe to dicks age,which would be a stretch,but aging characters,that actually get OLD get de aged that's how it works.

Reed and Sue are definitely older than they were when the first debuted, going by the fact that they have an at least preteen son who wasn't even born when Marvel started publishing FF comics. However, that's not really the point. The point is this: they're not "old" and the amount of time that it takes them to age any significant amount is literally decades in real time and we will probably never get to the point where they are shown as elderly.

Same with Batman. At least before Flashpoint, Batman wasn't shown to age much, even though he'd had five different sidekicks spanning 70 years. You could tell he was older than he was when he first started, but it wasn't entirely noticeable.

I don't see why something similar can't unfold with the dynamic of Superman and his family. Its taken 50 years for Franklin to be a preteen in the Marvel Universe. And I don't see Franklin aging to adulthood any time soon. Damian was introduced 11 years ago as a 10 year old and he's just now only been confirmed as 13 (and I don't see him being aged up much further past that). Jon will likely follow the same path: he'll never really age to an adult and writers can squeeze 50+ years of stories out of him remaining a kid alongside his parents, who remain at the "age" they're at now, and going on adventures with Damian if they want.

So, I don't think DC HAS to reboot. They've never really had to, though. Even Didio, who was the one who wanted to reboot in New 52 said that he wants DC to "never have to reboot again" (again, not that DC even had to in the first place and the reboot did cause more problems than it solved, but I digress).

[stephens2177]

And? I have a right to criticize it and regard it my own way, do I not? I do view it with regret. And I think the fact that DC is trying to further itself from the New 52 changes it set up means that at least some of the senior management does as well. Hopefully, that management changes at some point and we're able to get back what was lost.

You can disagree with that sentiment, but I can post that I think it was a terrible move and one that will be remembered as being terrible, just like Heroes Reborn at Marvel is remembered as such.

The point is that you post A LOT,which is OK,but it's mostly negative,and almost troll like.i would just post more about what you do like,and not so much the constant trashing the new 52.

Yes trash it,but not 2300 times.

Take it from a guy who knows how to obsessively post about 1 thing.

[stephens2177]

Reed and Sue are definitely older than they were when the first debuted, going by the fact that they have an at least preteen son who wasn't even born when Marvel started publishing FF comics. However, that's not really the point. The point is this: they're not "old" and the amount of time that it takes them to age any significant amount is literally decades in real time and we will probably never get to the point where they are shown as elderly.

Same with Batman. At least before Flashpoint, Batman wasn't shown to age much, even though he'd had five different sidekicks spanning 70 years. You could tell he was older than he was when he first started, but it wasn't entirely noticeable.

I don't see why something similar can't unfold with the dynamic of Superman and his family. Its taken 50 years for Franklin to be a preteen in the Marvel Universe. And I don't see Franklin aging to adulthood any time soon. Damian was introduced 11 years ago as a 10 year old and he's just now only been confirmed as 13 (and I don't see him being aged up much further past that). Jon will likely follow the same path: he'll never really age to an adult and writers can squeeze 50+ years of stories out of him remaining a kid alongside his parents, who remain at the "age" they're at now, and going on adventures with Damian if they want.

So, I don't think DC HAS to reboot. They've never really had to, though. Even Didio, who was the one who wanted to reboot in New 52 said that he wants DC to "never have to reboot again" (again, not that DC even had to in the first place and the reboot did cause more problems than it solved, but I digress).

I said pretty much the same thing you just wrote,but in my own special way lol.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The point is that you post A LOT,which is OK,but it's mostly negative,and almost troll like.i would just post more about what you do like,and not so much the constant trashing the new 52.

Yes trash it,but not 2300 times.

Take it from a guy who knows how to obsessively post about 1 thing.

Its not meant to troll anybody. That's just, you know, how I feel.

[stephens2177]

Its not meant to troll anybody. That's just, you know, how I feel.

I get it,and I'm with you on most everything you say,just don't hate,appreciate.lol, appreciate that what you want is owly coming back,and will.take a lil longer than you want,but it's coming.

Think and stay positive

[Atomic Man]

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there.
The first five years of the Post-Crises Superman were Awesome!!!

I'll defend what Byrne, Wolfman, Ordway, Perez, Jurgans, Stern, Gammil, Mcleod, Grummet, Simonson, Bogdanove, etc.. did on these issues as some of the better Superman stories in the last 30 years..

AMEN! I have a feeling Love Star hasn't actually read ANY of those stories. I began re-reading them (and in some cases, reading them for the first time) last year, and they're phenomenal. Great storytelling, characterization, and art. The stories themselves also feel like a narrative meal and not the appetizers we get for far less money these days.

There was nothing wrong with the SM/WW romance, could've been written better, sure, but online bashing didn't reflect sells until Tomasi took over and even supporters of the book, me included, didn't like his direction...also, if it was so bad, DC wouldn't still be using it in other things outside of comics. If the old status quo was so much loved etc, convergence should've done so much better and the highly anticipated Lois and Clark mini. As of now, Action Comics shouldn't be basically back at new52 level.

New 52 Superman was younger and unrelatable to the older fans who think he should just have this "father figure"/ grandfather persona. Who THEY grew up with, not considering a new generation of readers who could grow with new52 with a different non-predictable path.

Back on topic, I hope Lana doesn't really die just take her powers away if need be.

I'm 40 years old and have been reading comics regularly since I was 12 years old. I HATED the idea of The New 52, but this "old fogie" you presume to know so well bought Action because of Grant Morrison, and then picked up Superman, Batman, Justice League, and a few other books. Why would an old-timer like me, who thinks Superman should be a "grandfather figure" like when "I was reading" do this?

Passion for the character, DC Comics in general, and the medium. Y'see, if comic books are compelling and fresh (Morrison's Action run), I tend to spend money on them. When they cease to be this way, I drop 'em. I don't have as much money as I did in my youth, and I spend a lot of money on adult diapers, denture cream, and old Superman comics from waayyy back in the dark ages of the 1980s and 90s.

The problems with the New 52 iteration of Superman began LONG before Morrison left. Perez made it known publicly that there was no editorial oversight of the Superman titles and that even though the Superman title was supposed to pick up threads from Action set five years earlier, Morrison and editorial told him NOTHING. That's a bad sign.

You bashed the first five years of post-COIE Superman, and I maintain you did that out of desperation for your cause. Those books were impeccably managed editorially and creatively. Byrne wrote both Superman and Action and was, along with Marv Wolfman, overseeing the development of the rebooted Superman and his mythology. This only continued when Byrne left and Ordway and Stern came aboard, along with Jurgens and Simonson. These men and women were a team who shared a singular vision of Superman expressed uniquely in their own titles.

Your pal, the New 52 Superman, never ONCE benefited from a unified vision in five years of existence. Morrison wasn't given carte blanche on both Action and Superman. He should have written both for the first year and then handed the Superman title over to Perez after collaborating for a year. Instead, they never spoke. Morrison himself left because of the editorial state of DC at the time. Until Pak came along, there was a succession of uneven writers and artists who were simply bandages on a gaping wound. Andy Diggle might have been much more, but he was put off by the editorial nightmare of the time. Johns comes in and leaves after only a few issues, as even he realized he couldn't do anything to right the ship.

Here's my point: I gave my support to this iteration of the character and after 12 issues, I refused to continue to support it. DC refused to support it before they even put out the first issue.

Recently, coloring books, puzzles, new belt line from hot topic, and other liscensed apperal. new52 design is still promoted at amusement parks such as six flags. Even advertising posters, and even going smaller to little kids snacks and little action figures.

Action hasn't gone back to pre52 but new52 more or less yes. The only book that's a bit better is Tomasi/Gleason Superman.

It's going to take a few years for those merch designs to cycle out, but I see far more of the iconic iterations of Superman and the rest of the DCU on licensed merchandise. Contracts will expire on those versions and when they do, we'll either see a switch to the Rebirth looks or, as I suspect, the iconic looks.

New52 brought in new readers... and younger at that. Starting from the very beginning. That's essentially your "new generation". And that's the point... New52 Superman couldn't grow like pre52. So the readers who started with this new beginning, who actually liked him and connected with him couldn't "grow" with him because he was cut short.

No offense, but I seriously doubt many "new and younger readers" liked New 52 Superman. I listen to lots of Superman podcasts, visit lots of forums, and talk to lots of comic book readers. The overwhelming majority of the people that admitted to liking New 52 Superman were people who either A) had stopped reading years ago and wanted a fresh start or B) were reading the new take out of spite for Grounded and New Krypton.

Also, I really feel that you have some issues with age, perhaps bordering on ageism. I get that bitterness over the loss of something you enjoy, believe me. It's happened to me twice now, with the changes wrought with Infinite Crisis and then Flashpoint. Don't let it ruin your enjoyment of the medium.

But better remembered than the New 52 will be.

Frederick Wertham will be better remembered than the New 52.

I think the New 52 will be looked at as just a particular period in DC'S history and nothing more. It'll be looked at as the era where the Heroes wore crappy costumes and the continuity was a bit more vague than usual. It won't be hated so much as rendered irrelevant.

Just like its spiritual predecessor, Heroes Reborn. Thing is, had DC simply taken that approach with the New 52, we wouldn't be having all of this strife now. Or, at the very least, not quite as much.

Bottom line, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and can post it on a message board if he or she wants to, but just because its said on a message board doesn't mean it cant be respectful! and for a post about Superwoman 7, aren't we a little of base?

Agreed. I'd love for someone who actually read the issue to clue me on just what happened in it.

I get it,and I'm with you on most everything you say,just don't hate,appreciate.lol, appreciate that what you want is owly coming back,and will.take a lil longer than you want,but it's coming.

Think and stay positive

Superman would definitely encourage us to do this.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I get it,and I'm with you on most everything you say,just don't hate,appreciate.lol, appreciate that what you want is owly coming back,and will.take a lil longer than you want,but it's coming.

Think and stay positive

I understand. Thanks.