What is holding up Peter's villains from being as popular as Batman's

[WebLurker]

He means Lucius Fox. Although ms. Vale is indeed luscious.

Once again, who are these characters?

[Frontier]

Once again, who are these characters?

Lucius Fox helps Bruce Wayne run Wayne Enterprises and obtain tech for Batman, and was played by Morgan Freeman in the Nolan movies, while Vicki Vale is Batman's reporter love interest who was used in the first Tim Burton Batman movie.

[SpideyCeo]

The Joker has rarely if ever been a particularly deep character. His popularity in the mainstream is owed more to the guys who played him than the character himself.



Octopus, Kingpin, Kraven, Osborn and even Venom have been imagined differently. On the other hand I see little to no difference between Joker, Two-Face and Bane. The only guy with varying interpretations is Mr Freeze and only one of those interpretations is actually liked.



Marvel pushes Spider-Man and his villains great. People know and love Dr. Octopus and even Sandman thanks to the Raimi films. Venom was a misstep, yes, but even fans will admit that. They also have the various tv shows and games.

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People love Sandman? I'm not so sure thats true. Sandman wa cited as one of the worst and boring things about spidey 3, now doc ock has actually been well acclaimed and replaced gg as spideys most popular and iconic villain and still uses him over osborn as a leading mastermind in current spidey media.

[Carabas]

Once again, who are these characters?

Morgan Freeman in the Dark Knight trilogy and Kim Basinger in Burton's 1987 Batman movie.

[WebLurker]

People love Sandman? I'm not so sure thats true. Sandman wa cited as one of the worst and boring things about spidey 3...

In the movie proper, Sandman's story may not've been exactly the strongest part of the movie (of the villains, I think Venom turned out the best overall, ironically). However, Thomas Haden Church's cast, performance, and the "birth" scene are consistently regarded as good parts of the movie, even among those that don't like the movie.

now doc ock has actually been well acclaimed and replaced gg as spideys most popular and iconic villain and still uses him over osborn as a leading mastermind in current spidey media.

I think that may have more to do with Slott's obsession over the character than anything else.

[John Aston]

People love Sandman? I'm not so sure thats true. Sandman wa cited as one of the worst and boring things about spidey 3, now doc ock has actually been well acclaimed and replaced gg as spideys most popular and iconic villain and still uses him over osborn as a leading mastermind in current spidey media.

If that's true, I'm in the minority. The Sandman in Spider-Man 3 was a tragic villain like Doc Ock in 2. I recall more about his character and I can't even remember what Venom or the new Goblin looked like even though I know they were both there.

[Mister Mets]

batman imprinted into the popular consciousness (outside comics) earlier and more successfully than Spider-Man. and while great actors have portrayed the goblin, the joker has had ridiculously brilliant performances.

i'd also say the evil clown is a stronger image in western culture than a goblin.

Batman did beat Spider-Man to the punch.

He appeared earlier.

He had a 90s animated series before Spider-Man did, and it was better.

He had big-budget films earlier, and while the Raimi Spider-Man films were better than the Burton Batman films, the Nolan films are the best ever superhero films.

There have been few Spider-Man projects to get the pop-culture penetration of the 60s cartoon.

I've also forgotten to mention the acclaimed Arkham series of video games.

[UltimateTy]

Batman did beat Spider-Man to the punch.

He appeared earlier.

He had a 90s animated series before Spider-Man did, and it was better.

He had big-budget films earlier, and while the Raimi Spider-Man films were better than the Burton Batman films, the Nolan films are the best ever superhero films.

There have been few Spider-Man projects to get the pop-culture penetration of the 60s cartoon.

I've also forgotten to mention the acclaimed Arkham series of video games.

Nah. Nolan really only had one great movie in his trilogy.

[WebLurker]

He had a 90s animated series before Spider-Man did, and it was better.

But how did it compare to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, which is arguably Spidey's best animated run to date?

He had big-budget films earlier, and while the Raimi Spider-Man films were better than the Burton Batman films, the Nolan films are the best ever superhero films.

Better than Winter Soldier? That's a pretty tall order. (Saw the first half of Batman Begins, the origin story up till something's going funny with a tank. I still need to see the rest of it -- maybe the others if I like it -- but I have to say that what I saw of it was one of the most generic superhero movies of all time. Just as the origin story part of a first superhero movie, I'd argue that both Raimi's Spider-Man 1 and Iron Man 1's opening acts easily best BB's opening.

(However, I have found the '60s Batman to be the most enjoyable, save for the '90s cartoon, so I'm obviously not a purist.)

[SpideyCeo]

But how did it compare to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, which is arguably Spidey's best animated run to date?

Batman the animated series was not only the greatest superhero animated show of all time, it revolutionized cartoons as a artform for the 90s alonside the simpsons and has immortalized Batmans legacy as the ultimate badass superhero that set him above Superman. Spec Spidey was good but BATAS is a masterpiece and fictional hallmark that is still honered by other unique batman medias.

Its hallmark is probably why Marvel created the EMH show and spec spideys mature rones, its influenced every dc superhero cartoon media with mature themes like teen titans, young justice, superman the animated series, etc.

Spider-Man has nothing close to that influence. Marvel cartoons always made Spidey gimmicky with whars popular now.

[Mister Mets]

As I understood it, Batman and Spider-Man's rogues' galleries are considered two of the best of all time. Batman may have the edge in that he's arguably more popular than Spider-Man (I think Batman generally comes in second, with Spider-Man third), he's older (so has had more time for the stories and characters to enter pop culture), and has had a few more successful movie and TV shows (the '60s TV show, the '90s cartoon, and the Burton and Nolan movies are Batman's big thing, while Spider-Man's greatest hits are the Raimi trilogy and maybe the '90s cartoon, neither of which managed to make quite the same impact as the others did -- Spider-Man 1's key part in paving the way for the modern superhero movie market notwithstanding).

However, Batman stories focus mostly on the Batman part of the character, while Spider-Man has had a stronger focus on the Peter Parker character. Because of that, I would argue that Spider-Man's civilian supporting cast members are more popular and widely known that Batman's. The household name supporting Batman characters (not counting Robin) are probably just Alfred and Commissioner Gordon and I'm guess that the only girlfriend character that comes to mind is Catwoman. Maybe a few others.

On Spider-Man's side, Aunt May, J. Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson, Ben Urich, Harry Osborn, and Flash Thompson are some of the big names. Mary Jane Watson is arguably Marvel's closest analogue to Lois Lane (certainly one of the most popular significant other characters in the genre), and Gwen Stacy has remained memorable over the years.

So, I think in the end, it kind of evens out.

That is an excellent point. The greater focus on Peter's life leaves less room for the bad guys.

But how did it compare to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, which is arguably Spidey's best animated run to date?



Better than Winter Soldier? That's a pretty tall order. (Saw the first half of Batman Begins, the origin story up till something's going funny with a tank. I still need to see the rest of it -- maybe the others if I like it -- but I have to say that what I saw of it was one of the most generic superhero movies of all time. Just as the origin story part of a first superhero movie, I'd argue that both Raimi's Spider-Man 1 and Iron Man 1's opening acts easily best BB's opening.

(However, I have found the '60s Batman to be the most enjoyable, save for the '90s cartoon, so I'm obviously not a purist.)

Spectacular Spider-Man was awesome but it fell through the cracks caught in the chaos of Disney's Marvel acquisition. It wasn't as groundbreaking, and it was the seventh animated take on the character. It also lasted for only 26 episodes.

I don't think it had any villains with the impact of the Fox Batman's Mr. Freeze or Harley Quinn.

Winter Solider's great, but not on the level of Dark Knight (and maybe not even the other really good Nolan films.) Its quality doesn't have much to do with Spider-Man, although it might have something to say about the villains, since the bad guys were a bureaucrat and a brainwashed hero.

[Shriveling_memo]

Batman the animated series was not only the greatest superhero animated show of all time, it revolutionized cartoons as a artform for the 90s alonside the simpsons and has immortalized Batmans legacy as the ultimate badass superhero that set him above Superman. Spec Spidey was good but BATAS is a masterpiece and fictional hallmark that is still honered by other unique batman medias.

Its hallmark is probably why Marvel created the EMH show and spec spideys mature rones, its influenced every dc superhero cartoon media with mature themes like teen titans, young justice, superman the animated series, etc.

Spider-Man has nothing close to that influence. Marvel cartoons always made Spidey gimmicky with whars popular now.

Hey now, Batman the animated series was great, on par with Superman animated series, X-Men and spider. All those 90s cartoons were great. For me the first 4 episode of superman is some best cartoons ever made. Out of those four it just depends which character you liked best.

Spectacular, well that had potential to be greatest thing ever. Awesome theme song, great storylines, the development of Peter and Spider-Man well done so well.

Spidey and batman are both equal. Marvel focus more on his real lifez friends and family and dc focus more on the villains. You hardly see Bruce Wayne now days.

[Tuck]

Winter Solider's great, but not on the level of Dark Knight (and maybe not even the other really good Nolan films.) Its quality doesn't have much to do with Spider-Man, although it might have something to say about the villains, since the bad guys were a bureaucrat and a brainwashed hero.

Winter Soldier is also part of a newer form of movie franchising; it's somewhat of an episode inside a larger, ongoing story of the MCU. Winter Soldier doesn't work without the previous MCU movies.

The first Iron Man and to some extent Guardians of the Galaxy are the only ones to escape this.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

But how did it compare to the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon, which is arguably Spidey's best animated run to date?

Uh, Spectacular Spider-Man was great, but Batman TAS is a classic that still holds up after 20 years.

Better than Winter Soldier? That's a pretty tall order.

Uh, yes. The Dark Knight even won an Oscar. Its probably the only superhero movie that's ever been nominated for an Oscar for anything besides special effects. Can you say that for any of the Marvel films? I'm not knocking them, but in all honesty, they pale in comparison to the Dark Knight Trilogy. They honestly are some of the best superhero movies of all time.

[Frontier]

That is an excellent point. The greater focus on Peter's life leaves less room for the bad guys.



Spectacular Spider-Man was awesome but it fell through the cracks caught in the chaos of Disney's Marvel acquisition. It wasn't as groundbreaking, and it was the seventh animated take on the character. It also lasted for only 26 episodes.

I don't think it had any villains with the impact of the Fox Batman's Mr. Freeze or Harley Quinn.

Winter Solider's great, but not on the level of Dark Knight (and maybe not even the other really good Nolan films.) Its quality doesn't have much to do with Spider-Man, although it might have something to say about the villains, since the bad guys were a bureaucrat and a brainwashed hero.

I think Spectacular did suffer from being cut short with Marvel getting the animation rights back, but I think it was fairly groundbreaking in terms of being a modern Spider-Man adaption that captured the essence of the character and his world so well and updating it to the 21st century very effectively.

Their take on Tombstone was pretty on par with what B:TAS did with Mr. Freeze, though I don't think there was any "Harley Quinn" character given they entirely used characters from the comics instead of making new ones.