Does no one want 52 superman to come back????

[Grim Ghost]

Yep. I don't get how anyone can look at Nuperman and say it was progressive and then say Superdad is this huge regression. The only way that could be considered true is if you think who Superman is romantically involved with is a litmus test . If he's casually dating Wonder Woman ( which was done from time to time in canon PreCrisis it's progress. If he's with Lois Lane , no matter the context , it's automatically regression.

Now, after the last few years of the crap we got preFlashpoint, I was open to some regression if it meant getting the character and his mythos in order. However,it ultimately wasn't worth chucking away 30 years worth of stories and character development to get Grant's run, because what followed was just as bad overall as the last few years prior to the reboot. As much as I've grown to dislike the Byrne reboot and how it tossed away the previous 48 years of stories, at least what followed was a decade of strong quality and memorable stuff. It still didn't justify the reboot then but it made that bitter pill easier to swallow.

I'm not a fan of reboots in general. It was wrong in 1986. It was wrong in 2011.

I think the real issue is how we got there. If you want to put Superman and Lois together with a child then that is a journey. I want to see how it happens and see the process. Jumping to that out of the blue feels like such a cheat. Some people might say "oh we've seen all that before" but we haven't seen the process of them getting together and then getting married since the 90s. That was a long time ago now. I'm not even a big fan of them being married in general, but if you want to do that do the work and get us invested in it.

[manofsteel1979]

I think the real issue is how we got there. If you want to put Superman and Lois together with a child then that is a journey. I want to see how it happens and see the process. Jumping to that out of the blue feels like such a cheat. Some people might say "oh we've seen all that before" but we haven't seen the process of them getting together and then getting married since the 90s. That was a long time ago now. I'm not even a big fan of them being married in general, but if you want to do that do the work and get us invested in it.

Well, that is a fair point. Honestly instead of a reboot, the direction they are going on now should have been what was done.

However, Nuperman and the New 52 was just as much a cheat. We see Morison's Origin.. then we jump forward 5 years in Superman #1 and in the entire 5 years of the New 52 we got very little of that history filled in. The Superman/WW thing was a cheat. We see flirting in a couple panels here and there during the first twelve issues of JL and then they kiss, and bam, they are the new status quo and DC and the shippers act like it was the greatest love story of all time, and frankly beyond Soule attempting to give them some actual development it never really took hold. No time when you have crossover after crossover. If they had kept Nuperman but just decided to transition to a Lois relationship, followed by marriage to be following by a child , would have taken at least 4 or 5 years worth of Comics to get to that point. They likely still would have rushed things through some convoluted timeu whimmy thing to get this result.All is an indictment on the gratification now attitude of both creators and readers. I mean it took 4 years from the Byrne reboot until they got Lois and Clark together and another 5 years to get them married. Today it would have been rushed through in a year.

Sadly there is no patience for building and growing things over time as it once was. I would have preferred they done the Jon thing through the 2000's, but alas DC was so afraid to do anything that would " age" Superman, so they didn't.

At least this way, there is some back story with the marriage and the Lois and Clark book did at least show some snapshots of Jon's rearing. More development in 8 issues there in regards to the current status quo than many aspects of Nuperman had over his run.

[GodofBoredom]

Everyone seems to be big fans of super dad. I thought there be more love for New 52 SM.

I felt 52 had the right amount of character that everyone wanted in superman. Thoughts

What forum have you been reading? Half the forum would want New 52 back. It's just that most have settled for a compromise, and have Superdad and New 52 be the same character.

[Netherman14]

What forum have you been reading? Half the forum would want New 52 back. It's just that most have settled for a compromise, and have Superdad and New 52 be the same character.

Exactly, it's less a matter of people giving up on Nu52 Supes returning. then it is a compromise of sorts where Superdad is the Nu52 Superman of the original Post-Flashpoint timeline with a ten-year long career.

[Korath]

What forum have you been reading? Half the forum would want New 52 back. It's just that most have settled for a compromise, and have Superdad and New 52 be the same character.

I don't see how it is a compromise when it is obvious that there won't be anything from New 52 Superman in the version we'll have post Reborn. It's more the fact that we, fans of New 52 Superman, have accepted that DC doesn't care one bit about us. That's ok, since they demonstrated the same lack of interest in the pre-Flashpoint fans at the beginning of the New 52. But it isn't acceptance of Superdad. He may be a great character, but he won't ever be my Superman, no matter how much DC try to pretend that is totally the same guy. I mean, Action is crappy at best, Superman is slowly boring me (the last issues felt rather bland to me) and Superwoman has gone from excellent premise to a chore to read in the last issue (seriously, I don't know if it was because I didn't like the story, but I even felt that the pages were strangely divided, to the point of near incomprehension of what was happening).

I've chosen to not give on dollar to D.C. for the foreseeable future, and I've even postponed all buying of comics in the months to come, because I want to see where we are heading outside of the Superverse. If what happens there doesn't ruin too much of the New 52 for Batman and Aquaman, I'll probably buy the HC Rebirth of those two characters, but I'm fairly certain that I won't do such thing for Superman's and Wonder Woman's line. I must even confess that I'm slowly drifting toward Marvel, something that I felt impossible even three months ago.

But then again, it isn't the fault of Superdad or its writers. I'm just clearly not the type of person interested in the Superman D.C. want to promote. I can live with that, for me the Big Blue was never that great of a character before the New 52, so now that the grief of losing a character I loved is fading away, I'm not feeling much.

[SJNeal]

While I'm still a post-COIE kid at the end of the day, I didn't mind Nuperman at all* - until he shaved his head and lost his powers. I'm happy with where the line is now, and my cautious optimism at the beginning of Rebirth has now turned into just optimism. Really looking forward to the "Reborn" arc!



*In fact, pretty sure I'm the only one that really liked Perez' opening issues on Nuperman!

[Shriveling_memo]

I hear everyone when they say most fans are settling on superdad. I hear people say there is little difference between the superman but I don't agree.

Firstly this superman never made belief that batman could beat him, this superman was more aggressive.
I believe in the long run, with him being outed as Clark, would have answered the great debate of which personality does he side with.

Super dad family life wasn't earned, an again there is a creepiness about how superdad and old Lois are being brought in to take over the counter parts.

Only good thing to come out all this mess, is the new Chinese superman. Which for me is the best comic around at the moment

[adrikito]

I wanted that.. But shortly after the begin of rebirth I understood that recover him was impossible.

I leave behind the superman comics(for the destruction of N52 Superman) and another comics for rebirth..

And because I never liked Superdad.. I saw half of his familiar minicomic while my superman was suffering in TRUTH.. I saw the first images of rebirth and I leave the mini comic.. Then, Super league was Transformed in last days of superman and N52 Superman died..

I was stupid believing that the Powergirl/Supergirl thing could work with the N52 Superman/Superdad.. Without that belief, I would never have read the minicomic

The only Super that I read New super-man because is fun and only little related with the rest.. Although, the sales are low, bad thing..

I decided ignore any comic or saga related with the rebirth thing because after lose him I am not interested in nothing of that.

[DragonPiece]

[QUOTE=Korath;2591892]I don't see how it is a compromise when it is obvious that there won't be anything from New 52 Superman in the version we'll have post Reborn. /QUOTE]
But how do you know that? From the looks of it, a lot of the history from new 52 superman will become apart of superman except for things like his relationship with wonder woman most likely.

[TheCape]

Firstly this superman never made belief that batman could beat him, this superman was more aggressive

New 52 Superman did gave him the kryptonite ring in the hope that Batman could beat him if he went out of control. As for agresive, Superdad can be that way when he really wanted to, hell back in his own universe (specially in his first 5 years) Superdad was a lot more agresive than New 52 Superman. The man in the Superman #51 and the current one, aren't that different (not mentioning that Nuperman became less "agresive" with time).

Super dad family life wasn't earned, an again there is a creepiness about how superdad and old Lois are being brought in to take over the counter parts.

This version of Superman has been married to Lois since the 90s and we saw Jon's birht in Convergence, so is not that sudden. More development would have been prefered, but that's how comic works now, just look how we got S/WW. About the creppyness, just in Lois case and that would fade away assuming that Reborn reintegrate boths into the timeline.

[L.R Johansson]

I definitively want him back - and I'm still waiting!

It's true that the two Supermen have only small differences - but the devil is all in the details!
Again, it's a bit like comparing different tastes of ice cream - Superdad is vanilla-strawberry and Nuperman is vanilla-chocolate.

Really, what I wanted in Superman, the New-52 brought back - and that was confidence, swagger and social crusading - a Superman somewhat closer to Siegel and Shuster's original incarnation.

(btw, I'm STILL waiting for Earth-2 Superman to return as well! God-damn it Geoff Johns... get over that Donner-worship already!)

[Korath]

But how do you know that? From the looks of it, a lot of the history from new 52 superman will become apart of superman except for things like his relationship with wonder woman most likely.

Really ? From what I saw, nothing from the New 52 Superman remained.

[rui no onna]

All is an indictment on the gratification now attitude of both creators and readers. I mean it took 4 years from the Byrne reboot until they got Lois and Clark together and another 5 years to get them married. Today it would have been rushed through in a year.

Sadly there is no patience for building and growing things over time as it once was. I would have preferred they done the Jon thing through the 2000's, but alas DC was so afraid to do anything that would " age" Superman, so they didn't.

At least this way, there is some back story with the marriage and the Lois and Clark book did at least show some snapshots of Jon's rearing. More development in 8 issues there in regards to the current status quo than many aspects of Nuperman had over his run.

Honestly, this is probably due to DC needing a quick influx of sales/new readers. Quickest way to do that was with a reboot. Wasn't there a rumor that Warner was going to shut the comics division down if they didn't turn sales around? It's DC that couldn't afford to wait for a long build up.

[adrikito]

Really, what I wanted in Superman, the New-52 brought back - and that was confidence, swagger and social crusading - a Superman somewhat closer to Siegel and Shuster's original incarnation.

(btw, I'm STILL waiting for Earth-2 Superman to return as well! God-damn it Geoff Johns... get over that Donner-worship already!)

I appreciate those things too, I was attracted for things like that with N52 Superman..

With Val-Zod as Superman I doubt see Earth 2 Superman again.. and because Dick is Batman, Fury is WW..

I doubt that they will change that.. The rules are different in this Earth.

[JAK]

Super dad family life wasn't earned, an again there is a creepiness about how superdad and old Lois are being brought in to take over the counter parts.

The family life wasn't earned? Pardon me, but.. how do you figure? They've been married since 1996. Marriage and a family life isn't "the end of the story" as Jim Lee once said, it's a step in the journey.

As for taking over the others' lives - I'll agree on the Lois part, that is being done in a weird way so far.. but Superman has made no attempt to take over; he's said often that they're different, even if they're ultimately the same person.


On the larger topic.. I like where things are, but I certainly would like for New52-Superman's fans to have him back as well. I know how it felt to lose "my" Superman and have the company basically take turns pissing on him on the way out, and nobody deserves to feel that way. So his fans certainly have my sympathies.