Does no one want 52 superman to come back????

[Prime]

Superbro suffered from the same thing Superdad suffered a long time ago and it's pretty much Superman's biggest weakness, even more so than kryptonite...bad writing. Superdad suffered from it, so did Superbro and it will rear it's ugly head eventually.

[Atomic Man]

Yeah,the previous version got a great send off...A year where he moped across America after two years of bad stories just to have a three page " happy ending' tag simply to push them off the stage for new 52. He ended in a whimper. Pre Crisis Superman got a proper send off. Post Crisis didn't.

I agree that they shouldn't have done New 52 Superman fans wrong in the way they did, and perhaps Rebirth as a whole hasn't done quite as well as DC hoped, but let's face it, if New 52 Superman was selling gangbusters, we wouldn't be here. Simple as that. Sales before TRUTH may not have been terrible, but they certainly weren't great and while New 52 Superman certainly did have potential,DC didn't seem to want to even try. older fans like me who were still smarting over how the previous version was pissed on the last few years but were willing to give a new direction a chance was growing impatient with all of this ' new potential.' I was waiting and waiting and 5 years in ACTION COMICS was the only truly consistent book of the lot, and only due to two writers who did do good stuff when they weren't sucked into pointless never ending gimmicks to prop up sales. SUPERMAN outside of an issue here and there was consistently crap. Only the first year of SM/ WW was readable. BATMAN/ SUPERMAN was just OK but could have easily starred The previous Superman. he was barely a non entity in Justice League until the last year when Luthor joined and the less said about the Superboy and Supergirl books, the better.i mean we lost 30 to 50 plus years of stories being thrown in the trash for mostly MORE mediocrity without the benefit of the characters and history I had enjoyed for 20 years. I finally gave up with TRUTH. If everything was the quality of Morrison, Pak and Soule's first year, you'd have a leg to stand on. But you don't. New 52 Superman wasn't as successful as you want to claim. He could have been fixed, and he should have been, but DC chose another path. Perhaps a safer path as you say, but risk without reward wasn't doing Superman any favors either.

And if you haven't read the books like you claim, you can't claim that REBIRTH Superman hasn't been in good stories. You are merely going off of like minded ' not my Superman' opinions of people who are already inclined to hate it. Many reviewers disagree with you, and most Superman readers disagree with you. Supermsn comics are getting better reviews than he's had in several years. Yes, even many who joined with the New 52. I've seen many posters here and elsewhere saying " hey, I joined with new 52, and I miss him, but I also like the current guy. I'll stick around!" What about them? Aren't they " new" fans. Not to mention many readers who were coaxed back after 5 years. Sales may not be gangbusters but they are still respectible.

Rebirth Superman will live or die by the quality of stories. If they are quality he will persevere. If not ,he and his family will join Nuperman in the dust bin and DC will do something else. As it perhaps should be. Let's just hope whatever reboot or new direction they decide on is better thought out, planned and executed than New 52 Superman.

To add to what you've said here, I want to let some of the anti-old fans know something. I gave various New 52 titles a year to click. Outside of Morrison's Action and Batman (and Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E., which was fantastic) there was not one book that showed consistency with the rest of the universe and editorial direction. I actually came back when Johns went on Superman, only to find the story (and the fact that he left after so few issues) a huge letdown. I bought Convergence because I was hoping it would lead to everyone being happy: Earth-0 would have its New 52 titles, and new titles would be published on the pre-Flashpoint Earth. Something else happened, COIE was maybe undone, and then we got pre-Flashpoint Superman and Lois back.

I only bought Lois and Clark and then we got news of Rebirth. I not only added those titles to my re-opened folder, I also added and am still reading Batman, Green Arrow, JL, Trinity, Hal Jordan and the GL, Titans, and even gave TEC and WW a try. NONE of that would have happened had it not been for the good faith restored by not only restoring the Superman I grew up reading, but also by the promise of legacy and hope restored to the DCU under a shared creative vision. I've stuck around (and will continue to do so) as long as that quality remains.

Had the New 52 been like Rebirth, even though I hated the way the pre-Flashpoint timeline ended and reboots in general, I would have read more books had they been of the same quality. The issue is less one of Superman (although to me, the pre-Flashpoint Superman is as close to the Iconic Superman we'll ever get in mainstream comics) and more one of overall quality and respect for the DCU.

I kept hearing about New 52 Superman being a charather to attract new and young people, but the bulk of his fans seems to be older reader that were
a) Dissapointed with the direction of the Superman line in the last 2 years (or more) before the reboot and were hoping for a new take that hopefully wouldn't screw things up this time
or b) Older fans that really missed a more Pre-Crisis aka "classic" take on the characther.
About him being for younger people and having more room to grow, the dude was Superman for at least 10 years and was like 33 when he die, that isn't exactky scream young and wild.

I'm not saying that he didn't atract new people, he did, but they weren't the majority.

You're absolutely right. The New 52 did not bring in or retain the amount of "new readers" that many at DC and other fans would have us believe. Getting in stable new readers in great numbers is not something even a wholesale reboot can do.

Oh, I can tell OP hasn't been here very long.

I don't want him to come back, but not out of hate. New 52 Superman, as was executed, should have been an Elseworlds story. The work wasn't done to rebuild the character's world like was done in the post-Crisis years - too much of it relied on all the history it supposedly eliminated to draw any kind of response, and too much of the new stuff wasn't Superman. You saw both those problems come to a head in TRUTH. That's aside from all the stories that were just bad. I'm not going to say there weren't some interesting concepts, because there were. But it was obvious throughout that there wasn't a real plan for how to do the reboot, just that they were going to do it.

The only story from the era that will carry any real weight in the future is Morrison's Action run, but even that may be only as a story, since we don't yet know how it will fit with the status quo after Reborn. The only concept that is going to linger is the Wonder Woman shipping, and honestly, that's a terrible reason to keep the character going.

Instead of an Elseworlds story, the entire New 52 should have been the Earth-One line. Even though I enjoy JMS' work, Morrison's was far superior. Imagine if Morrison, Snyder, and others were doing their takes under the Earth-One banner while the post-COIE DCU continued alongside it. The Earth-One books have been very successful for DC, so I can only imagine they'd have been even more so with those names in such a easily accessible format.

Superbro suffered from the same thing Superdad suffered a long time ago and it's pretty much Superman's biggest weakness, even more so than kryptonite...bad writing. Superdad suffered from it, so did Superbro and it will rear it's ugly head eventually.

Amen to that. So many people seem to forget that the Superman titles were really weak for almost a full decade before Flashpoint (except for some of Johns' work on Action and Busiek's work on Superman) and have been consistently weak overall (outside of Morrison and Pak's non-crossover work) after Flashpoint.

[Minerboh]

Bring him back and give him a new solo series. Do not remove PF Superman again.

[Truman Burbank]

Instead of an Elseworlds story, the entire New 52 should have been the Earth-One line. Even though I enjoy JMS' work, Morrison's was far superior. Imagine if Morrison, Snyder, and others were doing their takes under the Earth-One banner while the post-COIE DCU continued alongside it. The Earth-One books have been very successful for DC, so I can only imagine they'd have been even more so with those names in such a easily accessible format.

Earth-One would have been another great option. Just something that was an alternate, confined continuity - not the main story.

[darkseidpwns]

Yes, bring him back and put him on a world with brash, young heroes. Give him a messy continuity, put Lobdell on his book and launch Kon-El book also with Lobdell. Make him evil once per year, subject him to Truth and other worthless crossovers. Ruin some of his villains like Cyborg Superman and Eradicator, destroy his "outdated" supporting cast so that Batman and Wonder Woman can replace them. Launch another book by Lobdell called Doomed and then kill him off and replace him with him something better...whoops already happened.

The New 52 era as a whole failed, that isn't Superman specific it's what it is. As someone stated what exactly will the Nuperman bring other than a collar and a ship? and the pretense of "youth". What makes this guy youthful? he's drawn the same as Superdad and all Superman fans seem to be under the agreement that he's essentially immortal anyway. Youth= relationship with Wonder Woman instead of Lois and that's the truth.

Moreover why is youth so important? do people scream for Deathstroke, Batman, Punisher and Iron Man to be young hunks? Superman has always been depicted as a man in his mid 30's. That's why we have Superboy and Jimmy Olsen.

[Sacred Knight]

Instead of an Elseworlds story, the entire New 52 should have been the Earth-One line. Even though I enjoy JMS' work, Morrison's was far superior. Imagine if Morrison, Snyder, and others were doing their takes under the Earth-One banner while the post-COIE DCU continued alongside it. The Earth-One books have been very successful for DC, so I can only imagine they'd have been even more so with those names in such a easily accessible format.

I still hope for this someday. There's nothing so special about the new 52 in particular either that it has to be those versions verbatim. That they didn't do that with the New 52 doesn't mean that its still not a very viable option in the future to try. Stuff like this isn't in their usual M.O., so unfortunately I'm not holding my breath, but I think its more than worth a shot. There's more than a handful of books that simply aren't going anywhere at any given time in the line Scrap those and make room for a smaller Earth-One line or whatever Earth you want to call it.

[Ascended]

So, no, I don't want Nuperman back, especially if it means undoing the last 6 Months of building to, what bring back a collar and mollifying a group of vocal Shippers who feel they deserve " their turn?". Nope. Now, I wouldn't mind seeing Nuperman or a version of him Continue in another stand alone book, but for right now I'm fine with where things are going.i think most readers of Superman agree.

This is more or less where Im at. I was very vocal in my favor of Nuperman, from Morrison's first issue to several months after Nuperman's stupid ass death (im one of those old fans who missed a classic Superman during post-Crisis, even though I started reading in the early 90's) and I was even louder in my disdain for Superdad. I hadn't planned on reading Rebirth at all, and only started Tomasi's run after three or four issues were out and posters here I trust said it was good (ya'll know who you are you lovely bastards!). And I still haven't read a page of Jurgens' Action.

But Im not a Nuperman fan. Im not a Superdad fan. Im a Superman fan, and I take my quality Superman regardless of era or continuity. And where we are now really works. I hate how we got here. It was stupid and convoluted and needless. But Tomasi is killing it, and ultimately that's all I ask for. When the book stops being enjoyable (by my subjective standards) I'm out. When Action gets good again, I'll return to that title.

If we could just get a little Golden Age social crusader thrown into the mix, I'd be thrilled. I have the high concept stuff I love from the Silver-Bronze Age, and the focus on character development and interpersonal dynamics I loved about post-Crisis. And Superdad does have a temper, which I appreciate. But a little social crusader is sorely missed.

[Adekis]

If we could just get a little Golden Age social crusader thrown into the mix, I'd be thrilled. I have the high concept stuff I love from the Silver-Bronze Age, and the focus on character development and interpersonal dynamics I loved about post-Crisis. And Superdad does have a temper, which I appreciate. But a little social crusader is sorely missed.

Gotta admit, my extremely vocal preference for the post-Flashpoint Superman would be more than a little mitigated if Rebirth Superman was more socially conscious!

I don't give a carp about shipping; before Kal died I was really burned out on the Wonder Woman ship even though I want it romanticized out the wazoo now that he's dead. I will say that I prefer him not to be married, I prefer him not to have a kid, but that's alright.

I've got no idea how they're gonna solve the current "Clark Kent" problem or if they're even going to try. I've not much for country-boy life-on-the-farm Superman, and Rebirth Kal definitely fits that category, but if they brought him back to the city and gave him some "street view" like the late Superman had, it'd go a looong way toward me liking the character.

[hellacre]

Superbro suffered from the same thing Superdad suffered a long time ago and it's pretty much Superman's biggest weakness, even more so than kryptonite...bad writing. Superdad suffered from it, so did Superbro and it will rear it's ugly head eventually.

Oh just wait. Geoff Johns, Dan Jurgens have not done anything so wonderful with Superman. Just lather, rinse, repeat. Greg Rucka is getting to define Trinity dynamics and that does not bode well because his Superman imo is one of the worse. He writes a stupidly naive Clark, who has so many double standards ...ie a hypocrite and his idea of Superman/Batman is the awful antagonistic one where Batman consistently comes off as smarter and intellectually owns him. I cannot tolerate that. Pak and Morrison had a Clark that would never allow Batman to make him look consistently stupid ...when both were together was a case of equals feeling out each other and growing and there was a lot of mutual respect between them because I felt new 52 could connect better with Batman because of his origin and his losses. Both real orphans etc and not the sunshine and rainbows and run to Ma and Pa and wifey.

But these writers now dominating Rebirth they see Superman under the most simplistic lens and his motivations usually centers around his own comfort as Superdad has already started off. They might hope to cheat by saying oh someone messed with time...Superdad is new 52...see he has the same past...well the ones Jurgens decide...and pretend Superdad had the same life. Superdad was in his 40ties...he was clearly not new 52...now everything is being scrambled to try to justify him and suddenly he and Lois are younger with a 10 year old. Doesn't that mean that mean their courtship and Lois' whole career as not the same? She married and they had their kid way younger? So if they merge him is mess. Because it changed the young Clark and Lois' career path but they won't touch on that. Lois Lane stayed on a farm for 10 years instead of being at the peak of her career. They wave wands and stuff happens just to push Jon. This is bad writing. It has already happened and is happening. They want an older married Superman then let him be who he is not try to steal new 52 because it changed new 52 Clark's whole life and essence. It waters down what Morrison and Pak did so badly. Johns don't care about anyone else's work. Nor does he seem enthused about Superman so who cares. Let Jurgens and Rucka do what they want.

Notice they do none of this bs to Batman no matter what he goes through. DC has no vision for Superman other than nostalgia. You can't help the character when you mollycoddle him that he seems stuck in one era with a kind of black and white mindset general fans have difficulty connecting with.

[hellacre]

I kept hearing about New 52 Superman being a charather to attract new and young people, but the bulk of his fans seems to be older reader that were
a) Dissapointed with the direction of the Superman line in the last 2 years (or more) before the reboot and were hoping for a new take that hopefully wouldn't screw things up this time
or b) Older fans that really missed a more Pre-Crisis aka "classic" take on the characther.
About him being for younger people and having more room to grow, the dude was Superman for at least 10 years and was like 33 when he die, that isn't exactky scream young and wild.

I'm not saying that he didn't attract new people, he did, but they weren't the majority.

I disagree. The numbers prove Rebirth is not selling more or better than new 52. Comic Beat has good analysis. Go read it. Rebirth has incentives that still did not push it past new 52 and it is already bleeding readers.

Are you happy for this "majority" only to be Superman fans? Just cater to aging readers only? Why can't you have the version you want without stealing the one I see other people liked? Are older readers only the people DC want? And let's be fair, many longtime readers liked new 52 as well. This is so short-sighted. No wonder DC has to push Batman in titles to make it sell...including Rebirth Superman. Rebirth has tried to do many Supertitles and they all dropping like flies...The " dude " deserves his chance he walked the walk for 5 years. He earned it. You can have yr older guy in another title too. Classic had other titles along the way to pacify fans when new 52 was there. Did those sell gangbusters? No. New 52 Superman fans deserve their version to survive. We will always know they cheated for your older version if they steal him in a merger.

[Kuwagaton]

There is a certain appeal to the youth, but it's kind of a waste when you had/have Jon, Kon, Kara, and Kenan. Sure he's an adult where they're not, but if thirty to fifty-something writers are going to that same "young and cool" well, the water's gonna taste pretty similar no matter the cup.

And I still haven't read a page of Jurgens' Action.

When Action gets good again, I'll return to that title.

Of course, I totally agree about being fan a Superman who isn't version restricted. I just wanted to say that I think if you give the Trial of Luthor arc a shot, it probably will read well in trade as the issues have been getting better steadily since that one started.

I've got no idea how they're gonna solve the current "Clark Kent" problem or if they're even going to try. I've not much for country-boy life-on-the-farm Superman, and Rebirth Kal definitely fits that category, but if they brought him back to the city and gave him some "street view" like the late Superman had, it'd go a looong way toward me liking the character.

I think "Clark Kent" will ghost and ultimately serve a purpose in re-establishing the secret identity, no matter who he is or his real intent. The farmer thing seems pretty out as of Action #977.

Hope they give him his old school street view back, actually, because I don't remember New 52 Superman having a presence in the slums.

Greg Rucka is getting to define Trinity dynamics and that does not bode well because his Superman imo is one of the worse.

Francis Manapul is the writer of Trinity.

[TheCape]

I disagree. The numbers prove Rebirth is not selling more or better than new 52. Comic Beat has good analysis. Go read it. Rebirth has incentives that still did not push it past new 52 and it is already bleeding readers.

Are you happy for this "majority" only to be Superman fans? Just cater to aging readers only? Why can't you have the version you want without stealing the one I see other people liked? Are older readers only the people DC want? And let's be fair, many longtime readers liked new 52 as well. This is so short-sighted. No wonder DC has to push Batman in titles to make it sell...including Rebirth Superman. Rebirth has tried to do many Supertitles and they all dropping like flies...The " dude " deserves his chance he walked the walk for 5 years. He earned it. You can have yr older guy in another title too. Classic had other titles along the way to pacify fans when new 52 was there. Did those sell gangbusters? No. New 52 Superman fans deserve their version to survive. We will always know they cheated for your older version if they steal him in a merger.

The Superman ongoing is still above of his new 52 counterpart and probably would setle in the mid 50k rank after a while and his digital sales has been consistenly great, Action is slightly above of how it was before Rebirth, but is dissapointing compare to Morrison's Action, but is kind of unfair to compare those 2 considering how the lattest has Morrison and a new shinny number #1. About Rebirth performance, sales are average as far as i had seem, some better than the New 52, some equal and some worse. I doubt that it had to do with the Rebirth idea is proably just people getting tired of relaunchs, also i had heard good things about digital sales for DC, that had a lot of improvement apparently.

About the "majority", i just want people, new and old, to enjoy the charather, the fact that Superman now is an old guy hasn't new fans to come along, i had met a lot of then. I didn't want for this to happen, i didn't want a reboot in the first place either, i just wanted good Superman stories, i'm getting that now and i enjoying as it last, i feel bad for the people that were fans of the New 52 Superman, but i do think that they are being as obnoxious as the Pre-Flaspoint fans 5 years ago, specially because at the end of the day this 2 guy are more alike that different, even Pak was getting away of the whole GA social warrior stuff. About the other super titles, is a pitty how poor they are performing but sales aren't an indicator of quality, New Super-Man is great, but isn't getting the credit that it deserves.

[darkseidpwns]

I disagree. The numbers prove Rebirth is not selling more or better than new 52. Comic Beat has good analysis. Go read it. Rebirth has incentives that still did not push it past new 52 and it is already bleeding readers.

Are you happy for this "majority" only to be Superman fans? Just cater to aging readers only? Why can't you have the version you want without stealing the one I see other people liked? Are older readers only the people DC want? And let's be fair, many longtime readers liked new 52 as well. This is so short-sighted. No wonder DC has to push Batman in titles to make it sell...including Rebirth Superman. Rebirth has tried to do many Supertitles and they all dropping like flies...The " dude " deserves his chance he walked the walk for 5 years. He earned it. You can have yr older guy in another title too. Classic had other titles along the way to pacify fans when new 52 was there. Did those sell gangbusters? No. New 52 Superman fans deserve their version to survive. We will always know they cheated for your older version if they steal him in a merger.

The current line of Super family books are far superior to the crap produced during the New 52. These books are actually diverse, they have quality and offer different types of content. You've got 2 books with female leads, a book with a Chinese guy, a book to cater to kids. Sales for these are irrlevant, Midnighter and Omega Men had poor sales too. These books will gain a place in history unlike the cesspool that was the Super franchise during the New 52. Remember that atrocious Superboy book? or the teen age Doomsday book?.

[Sacred Knight]

Eh, Superman is really, really good, and a leaps and bound improvement over the state it was in before. Action on the other hand doesn't hold a candle to Action before Rebirth though. In the New 52, Action was great and Superman was meh at best to bad. With Rebirth, Superman is great and Action is meh to bad. Nothing has changed except which book is great and which one isn't.

[Browncoat Alex]

The Superman ongoing is still above of his new 52 counterpart and probably would setle in the mid 50k rank after a while and his digital sales has been consistenly great, Action is slightly above of how it was before Rebirth, but is dissapointing compare to Morrison's Action, but is kind of unfair to compare those 2 considering how the lattest has Morrison and a new shinny number #1. About Rebirth performance, sales are average as far as i had seem, some better than the New 52, some equal and some worse. I doubt that it had to do with the Rebirth idea is proably just people getting tired of relaunchs, also i had heard good things about digital sales for DC, that had a lot of improvement apparently.

About the "majority", i just want people, new and old, to enjoy the charather, the fact that Superman now is an old guy hasn't new fans to come along, i had met a lot of then. I didn't want for this to happen, i didn't want a reboot in the first place either, i just wanted good Superman stories, i'm getting that now and i enjoying as it last, i feel bad for the people that were fans of the New 52 Superman, but i do think that they are being as obnoxious as the Pre-Flaspoint fans 5 years ago, specially because at the end of the day this 2 guy are more alike that different, even Pak was getting away of the whole GA social warrior stuff. About the other super titles, is a pitty how poor they are performing but sales aren't an indicator of quality, New Super-Man is great, but isn't getting the credit that it deserves.

I agree. I do feel bad for all the people who really love New 52 Superman, but I do find a lot of the arguments on here against SuperDad, Lois and Jon to be mostly just personal preference and bias that people are presenting as fact. I for one am really enjoying Superman and Action Comics at the moment. Are they perfect? Obviously not, but I don't think you can just dismiss them as having no merit.