Does no one want 52 superman to come back????

[darkseidpwns]

Eh, Superman is really, really good, and a leaps and bound improvement over the state it was in before. Action on the other hand doesn't hold a candle to Action before Rebirth though. In the New 52, Action was great and Superman was meh at best to bad. With Rebirth, Superman is great and Action is meh to bad. Nothing has changed except which book is great and which one isn't.

Rebirth Action is improving, New 52 Action got worse after Paks first arc. Once Henshaw enters the fray and Luthors arc kicks in to the next gear Action will become considerably superior to what it has been

[Sacred Knight]

This past issue was better. The first two arcs were trainwrecks though so one decent issue doesn't mean much just yet. I am hopeful, Cyborg Superman coming back will do a lot for me, but we will see. The elimination of the double debacle with Reborn will hopefully help it as well, as Action has dealt more with it than Superman, and all of that is just unequivocally awful regardless who was writing it.

[hellacre]

All anyone is basically saying here is BOTH versions are FINE when written well so as new 52 Superman fans why can't we have the new 52 version back? The grounds for killing him and merging him is weak. Bad writing does not negate new 52 Superman who barely had a chance to develop. Time jumps is not development so saying oh he died at 33 he is not young is silly. And we should be allowed to have him given he sold books, and he is different from Superdad. No one here is saying not to have a Superdad but don't kill our guy for him. Superdad fans fully well know a merger is they get to take what was not their Hx and origin but they basically get Superdad. How can some of them who hated on new 52 from day one suddenly be fine with having his past but refusing to embrace him as a younger man? It's double standards. New 52 was more socially conscious and the guy by Morrison and Pak would never sit on his butt to play house or just fight for his family to be safe. He fought despite having family and he fought powerless. If DC did the opposite say they merge but bring back a single guy then Superdad fans would rage. I for one would not even want that because I know they were not the same man. That is just wishy washy to dilute both characters development and the past stories of both.

[Agent Z]

Oh just wait. Geoff Johns, Dan Jurgens have not done anything so wonderful with Superman. Just lather, rinse, repeat. Greg Rucka is getting to define Trinity dynamics and that does not bode well because his Superman imo is one of the worse. He writes a stupidly naive Clark, who has so many double standards ...ie a hypocrite and his idea of Superman/Batman is the awful antagonistic one where Batman consistently comes off as smarter and intellectually owns him. I cannot tolerate that. Pak and Morrison had a Clark that would never allow Batman to make him look consistently stupid ...when both were together was a case of equals feeling out each other and growing and there was a lot of mutual respect between them because I felt new 52 could connect better with Batman because of his origin and his losses. Both real orphans etc and not the sunshine and rainbows and run to Ma and Pa and wifey.

But these writers now dominating Rebirth they see Superman under the most simplistic lens and his motivations usually centers around his own comfort as Superdad has already started off. They might hope to cheat by saying oh someone messed with time...Superdad is new 52...see he has the same past...well the ones Jurgens decide...and pretend Superdad had the same life. Superdad was in his 40ties...he was clearly not new 52...now everything is being scrambled to try to justify him and suddenly he and Lois are younger with a 10 year old. Doesn't that mean that mean their courtship and Lois' whole career as not the same? She married and they had their kid way younger? So if they merge him is mess. Because it changed the young Clark and Lois' career path but they won't touch on that. Lois Lane stayed on a farm for 10 years instead of being at the peak of her career. They wave wands and stuff happens just to push Jon. This is bad writing. It has already happened and is happening. They want an older married Superman then let him be who he is not try to steal new 52 because it changed new 52 Clark's whole life and essence. It waters down what Morrison and Pak did so badly. Johns don't care about anyone else's work. Nor does he seem enthused about Superman so who cares. Let Jurgens and Rucka do what they want.

Notice they do none of this bs to Batman no matter what he goes through. DC has no vision for Superman other than nostalgia. You can't help the character when you mollycoddle him that he seems stuck in one era with a kind of black and white mindset general fans have difficulty connecting with.

Rucka never wrote Bruce as owning Superman. In fact, he's been more critical of Batman than most writers

[TheCape]

New 52 as socially conscious and the guy by Morrison and Pak would never sit on his butt to play house or just fight for his family to be safe. He fought despite having family.

Eh, Superdad is not like that, seriously that stament is a lot of bulshit, in L&C we saw that he was helping of the shadows most of the time, there's not prove that he was doing just that when things went bad, that fortress that he build with his own hands is a good prove of it, hell in issue #6 he knew tha Lois and Jon were in danger, but he didn't come into their aid inmideatly because he saw a bridge falling apart with lots of people on it.
We saw him going against a multiversal threat without knowing that if he would come back, we saw him risk his life in JL when he went throught the core of the earth knowing that he might die and that his family wasn't safe. In issue #7 we saw that Lois and Jon starting the day without him because he is busy helping people more often than not. Even in the L&C mini is implied that Jon don't saw his father as much as he would like.

[hellacre]

Eh, Superdad is not like that, seriously that stament is a lot of bulshit, in L&C we saw that he was helping of the shadows most of the time, there's not prove that he was doing just that when things went bad, that fortress that he build with his own hands is a good prove of it, hell in issue #6 he knew tha Lois and Jon were in danger, but he didn't come into their aid inmideatly because he saw a bridge falling apart with lots of people on it.
We saw him going against a multiversal threat without knowing that if he would come back, we saw him risk his life in JL when he went throught the core of the earth knowing that he might die and that his family wasn't safe. In issue #7 we saw that Lois and Jon starting the day without him because he is busy helping people more often than not. Even in the L&C mini is implied that Jon don't saw his father as much as he would like.

You can try to sugar coat it. He did. He stood by for 10 years and did not intervene in many incidents that someone with his power and experience could have stopped. The idea he needed to hide also is bs since we have other Supermen come into canon from other verses, show themselves and help. Maybe if your Superdad had stepped up what happened would have never happened? He came from a dying world and not even he learned that lesson? What has to happen for this guy to see that? That he is in a position to make a difference? Oh wait someone else has to tell him. Even if new 52 married and had a kid I doubt someone like him, given the limited time he had and what experienced, would hide. He goes against threats after DC kill another guy so he can replace him. DC's aim now is to say look how great he is. He risks everything for family. Every regular cop and soldier does that from day one. The extent of Superman's powers and experience should reflect what he deals with. Keeping is family safe is understandable but hiding for no good reason is not a Superman option as far as I am concerned even if there are two. If he was emotionally scarred , had been affected by something to go into exile and so on I can get that but this guy is happy...happy and his family safe. The whole reason there is this mess is because DC wants to dump on one because they wanted a relaunch. And many...not all Superdad fans don't care how they do about doing this, even if it makes Superdad look questionable and killing an official guy and then pretending he as one and the same. If Superdad was allowed to be in his world and have his life...know what? He'd have been served better. But DC and Jurgens wanted to force him in hence the mess.

[adrikito]

All anyone is basically saying here is BOTH versions are FINE when written well so as new 52 Superman fans why can't we have the new 52 version back? The grounds for killing him and merging him is weak.

Bad writing does not negate new 52 Superman who barely had a chance to develop. Time jumps is not development so saying oh he died at 33 he is not young is silly. And we should be allowed to have him given he sold books, and he is different from Superdad. No one here is saying not to have a Superdad but don't kill our guy for him.

New 52 was more socially conscious and the guy by Morrison and Pak would never sit on his butt to play house or just fight for his family to be safe.

He fought despite having family and he fought powerless. If DC did the opposite say they merge but bring back a single guy then Superdad fans would rage. I for one would not even want that because I know they were not the same man. That is just wishy washy to dilute both characters development and the past stories of both.

Although I hate this fact.. See N52 Superman die young only made me admire him more, he Exceeded my expectations.. and made me hate his replace..

The character was always faithful to his role of protector to the Earth.. until his DEFINITIVE death.. Clearly, he was superman... I would like see his story(changing things and with WW relation) in a movie with supergirl in the end as his succesor.

But, unfortunately Rebirth is going to destroy the meaning of his existence and sacrifice.. Honoring N52 Superman a little initially for then forget his sacrifice and existence..

Sending him back to his NATIVE UNIVERSE would have been a HAPPY FINAL in comparison to this... You think.. My hero is alive in another place...

[Thomas Crown]

All anyone is basically saying here is BOTH versions are FINE when written well so as new 52 Superman fans why can't we have the new 52 version back? The grounds for killing him and merging him is weak. Bad writing does not negate new 52 Superman who barely had a chance to develop.

Every time someone here uses "bad writing" and "low sales" as a justification for killing off Nuperman, my eyes roll so hard that I almost see my brain. As if the stories between 1986 and 2011 never went through periods of weak writing and dwindling sales. Not to mention that using "bad writing" as an excuse invalidates all the good work that Grant Morrison, Greg Pak, Gene Luen Yang, Charles Soule and Peter Tomasi did with the character. Even Scott Lobdell run, being a hit-or-miss, had its moments. You didn't like the direction that Superman books took during DCYOU? Fine! But, two things: 1- "Semi-depowered Superman running around in t-shirt and jeans" was never meant to be a permanent status quo. 2- Don't use something so subjective as a personal opinion to justify the way that DC treated Nuperman.

[rui no onna]

Even in the L&C mini is implied that Jon don't saw his father as much as he would like.

Yep. And even powerless in Convergence: Superman when they were stuck in Gotham and Lois was pregnant, he was playing vigilante (although I have no idea why Batman wasn't there). He could have died if the dome hadn't lifted at just the right moment.

As for sticking to the shadows while in New52 world, way I interpret it is aside from keeping his family hidden, it's also out of respect for the Superman and Justice League already in that world. Lois has a scrapbook full of news clippings of pre-FP Superman's exploits during New52. He has experience but I reckon it's because of that experience that he was willing to trust the New52 superheroes to do their own thing with minimal interference instead of acting the interloper. Besides, he wasn't as strong as New52 Superman.

[rui no onna]

Every time someone here uses "bad writing" and "low sales" as a justification for killing off Nuperman, my eyes roll so hard that I almost see my brain. As if the stories between 1986 and 2011 never went through periods of weak writing and dwindling sales.

Right. And that's exactly why DC had the New52 reboot in the first place. If sales stagnate to a very low point on Rebirth, I expect we'll see yet another reboot.

Also, it's not a justification. Just a possible explanation for why DC did what they did.

[manofsteel1979]

I'm sorry... This whole narrative that Nuperman is more worthy of the role because Superdad is selfish and isn't as compassionate and empathetic because he has a family is ridiculous.

If Superdad only cares for his own comfort and his family, he would have simply sat out completely being a hero at all during his year in the dome, he wouldn't have volunteered to go with Paralax Hal and PreCrisis Kara to go stop AntiMONITOR at the risk of being killed and he and his family being nuked from existence , he wouldn't have even gone out in the black suit during Nuperman's time and he certainly wouldn't have taken up the mantle with Nuperman's death. If all he truly cared for is playing happy homemaker (as certain people keep paroting like it was some rehearsed talking point and not someone who actually bothered to read the stories they seem to be the authority on), he would have pulled an Alan Moore, tracked down some Gold K, stripped himself of his powers and done just that.


It's a gross over Simplification at the least and an outright lie at the worst.

I guarantee you, if somehow Superdad was written as out and proud, wearing the red and blue and inserting himself into every major event as another Superman, the same people would be screaming that Superdad was encroaching on Nuperman's glory and Should sit on his ass like they say he did, and if they did decide to go the two Supermen option that seems popular now, if it even looked like Superdad may outshine their guy, they would be demanding he'd stop using the Superman name, the suit, and would likely end up bitching and moaning until DC got rid of him entirely, especially if his book or books started outselling their guy.



The ONLY thing I will give the point to is during FOREVER EVIL. Given the circumstances in that story, yes, Superman should have come forward to Bruce and Lex and helped defeat the crime syndicate. However it was alluded to in the Lois and Clark book that Superdad had off world adventures at times during the last decade, so it was likely he was just gone during that time, but I wish that was addressed directly. That is bad writing. That can be agreed on. The people in charge should have addressed that early on.

But of course that doesn't matter. Because we all know the real reason of the vitriol and gross mischaracterizations, and it's not just the admittingly crappy way we got from Nuperman to Superdad. It's much more personal and specific.

It's the same bullcrap we had over the course of the New 52 from a certain segment of fans who refused to accept Nuperman just because of who he loved. Now it's coming from the other side. It's transparent. And it is complete bollocks .

[Netherman14]

I'm sorry...I can't stand this " Superdad is a selfish ******* compared to saintly New 52 Superman " bull crap.


If Superdad only cares for his own comfort and his family, he would have simply sat out completely being a hero at all during his year in the dome, he wouldn't have volunteered to go with Paralax Hal and PreCrisis Kara to go stop AntiMONITOR at the risk of being killed and he and his family being nuked from existence , he wouldn't have even gone out in the black suit during Nuperman's time and he certainly wouldn't have taken up the mantle with Nuperman's death. If all he truly cared for is playing happy homemaker (as certain people keep paroting like it was some rehearsed talking point and not someone who actually bothered to read the stories they seem to be the authority on), he would have pulled an Alan Moore, tracked down some Gold K, stripped himself of his powers and done just that.

Jesus Christ. If I have to see that outright pile of bull feces spewed AGAIN in a discussion about Superman, I'm going to scream. It's a gross over Simplification at the least and an outright lie at the worst.

I guarantee you, if somehow Superdad was written as out and proud, wearing the red and blue and inserting himself into every major event as another Superman, the same people would be screaming that Superdad was encroaching on Nuperman's glory and Should sit on his ass like they say he did, and if they did decide to go the two Supermen option that seems popular now, if it even looked like Superdad may outshine their guy, they would be demanding he'd stop using the Superman name, the suit, and would likely end up bitching and moaning until DC got rid of him entirely, especially if his book or books started outselling their guy.



The ONLY thing I will give the point to is during FOREVER EVIL. Given the circumstances in that story, yes, Superman should have come forward to Bruce and Lex and helped defeat the crime syndicate. However it was alluded to in the Lois and Clark book that Superdad had off world adventures at times during the last decade, so it was likely he was just gone during that time, but I wish that was addressed directly. That is bad writing. That can be agreed on. The people in charge should have addressed that early on.

But of course that doesn't matter. Because we all know the real reason of the vitriol and gross mischaracterizations, and it's not just the admittingly crappy way we got from Nuperman to Superdad. It's much more personal and specific.

It's the same bullcrap we had over the course of the New 52 from a certain segment of fans who refused to accept Nuperman just because of who he loved. Now it's coming from the other side. It's transparent. And it is complete bollocks .

I would have honestly preferred Clark returning to action alongside Nu52 Supes, maybe it would have eased off Nuperman's workload and stopped (or at least delayed) his poisoning after poisoning of cells.

I do see comments like hellacre's and I roll my eyes, because it's giving a bad name to fans of Nuperman like me.

Hellacre can call me a suck-up of Superdad, I don't care.

[manofsteel1979]

I would have honestly preferred Clark returning to action alongside Nu52 Supes, may it would have eased off Nuperman's workload and stopped (or at least delayed) his poisoning after poisoning of cells.

I do see comments like hellacre's and I roll my eyes, because it's giving a bad name to fans of Nuperman like me.

I know it and I know not all of you believe the same way, and I feel bad for you guys, because you got screwed, starting with TRUTH and it never let up. I feel for you. It's for you guys I wish DC would throw you all a bone, and let you guys have Nuperman in some form. Hell, if Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder came along with it, I'd likely buy several copies of the first issue!

But the poster you mentioned and others...The more they antagonize those of us that like the books and try their best to tell us we are wrong for enjoying the current status quo,it makes me all the more glad that they are no longer getting what they want.They are no better than the people who hated Nuperman and antagonized Nuperman fans because he wasn't with Lois or wearing trunks. I guess they don't see it or don't want to.

[adrikito]

I would have honestly preferred Clark returning to action alongside Nu52 Supes, may it would have eased off Nuperman's workload and stopped (or at least delayed) his poisoning after poisoning of cells.

I do see comments like hellacre's and I roll my eyes, because it's giving a bad name to fans of Nuperman like me.

Hellacre can call me a suck-up of Superdad, I don't care.

Certainly, my comments here brings out the worst of me..

I should go back to batman topics where I'm happy.. The same as the last weeks.. Here I will not find anything that makes me happy..

I'm glad to see you again, manofsteel1979..

[manofsteel1979]

Certainly, my comments here brings out the worst of me..

I should go back to batman topics where I'm happy.. The same as the last weeks.. Here I will not find anything that makes me happy..

I'm glad to see you again, manofsteel1979..

To be clear, I wasn't referring to you. You and I are cool, even if we disagree.