Superman Reborn Part One Preview (Newsarama)

[stephens2177]

I swear you guys aren't going to be satisfied until you get a one hundred percent faithful remake of the classic suit. I just got though reading the hardcover of unchained and in the back there is acover gallery of all the different Supermen from 1930's to Nu52 each one has a slight variation to the suit. (They count 1930's and Golden age as separate Supermen). The Superman that comes back after Doomsday is interestingly enough called Superman Reborn. I don't see what's the big dea,l Superman use to have straps on his boots or a Gold Shield for an emblem. Things change.

Buddy,I just wanted to see the belt on the new suit,not change it.

Gary Frank's cover does look wonky around the belt area,but if you looked back in this thread I posted a pic he drew of superman saving Lois and catching a helicopter,that makes the new belt look flawless.

Don't jump on the hate parade,because you think someone else is in that same parade.sometimes we just wonder about stuff,because we wonder about stuff

[Patrick Gerard]

I swear you guys aren't going to be satisfied until you get a one hundred percent faithful remake of the classic suit. I just got though reading the hardcover of unchained and in the back there is acover gallery of all the different Supermen from 1930's to Nu52 each one has a slight variation to the suit. (They count 1930's and Golden age as separate Supermen). The Superman that comes back after Doomsday is interestingly enough called Superman Reborn. I don't see what's the big dea,l Superman use to have straps on his boots or a Gold Shield for an emblem. Things change.

Well, most of his costume was pretty well fixed by the mid-40s and only varied based on things that could be chalked up to art style differences (big S, small S, curved bottom or flat bottom "S", which way the spitcurl went, flat-top or angled boots) for 65 or so years, aside from temporary, storyline-specific costumes.

And I do get how "underpants on the outside" and "secret identity" are two of the more important defining aspects of being a super-hero. Without some markers like that, what you have is a sci-fi action hero that could include anime characters or Buffy or Indiana Jones rather than the much more narrowly defined "40s circus strongman with mystery man/caped avenger elements". So there is the argument, much like the pineapples on pizza discussion in pop culture, that in order to be super-hero and not just general sci-fi action, you have to do things that would feel peculiar or awkward anywhere EXCEPT a super-hero comic.

I'm not taking quite that hard a line but I *get* why people cling to that stuff. I do think you shouldn't try to make these characters appealing to people but should make these characters the best versions of what they are and let people love or hate that on merit. As opposed to trying to court an audience.

[sustainentropy]

It seems to me that DC were still toying around with exactly what the integrated Reborn suit would look like while a lot of covers we've seen were being put together. First they were clearly thinking of keeping the current Rebirth belt design, but removing the cuffs and adding red boots. Then the bulkier belt idea came about as drawn by Gleason. Then Gary Frank's design in that connecting cover for Reborn, and then finally his sleeker design for the belt as teased in the image where Superman is catching Lois and the helicopter.

Further evidence that this was the case is seen in this week's Batman, where Superman has red boots with a slightly different design that are very similar to Gleason's first post Reborn sketch from 2016. I think Gary Frank's latest teased design will be the final one, and I think it will be retconned so that Superman has been wearing this suit his whole career. I think Reborn will frame it so that the past few years of stories were some kind of concentrated attack by a powerful enemy to weaken Superman and weren't, in fact, how things "really" happened in continuity at all. Basically "Everything you know is a lie!".

It makes sense with the "Secret History" theme of Rebirth.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah, Kenny would be a long-shot here. But, I don't think he'd be a long-shot to return in some capacity down the line. At least not as long as Jurgens is on the team. I still think either he or Metallo should be turned into a reformed hero. Whichever one works, while the other remains a villain.

Well, new52 Metallo was kinda heroic (or something like that). But yeah, given all this craziness, it's entirely possible we could see Kenny down the line.

http://insidepulse.com/2015/06/01/de...-booster-gold/

Pictures at the link above. The Booster story was New 52 and pre-FP Booster teaming up. As I recall, New52 was the one from JLi. Pre-FP was the one who objected to Superman/WW and was in Future's End.

Pre-FP was dying and was saved by turning him into the new Waverider. Jurgens wrote but didn't draw that.

Thanks a lot. Yup, it looks very much like old Waverider.

Probably worth noting Jurgens also had an older Jon Kent in Batman Beyond.

Trying to think of other pre52 characters who might be intact:

Luthor was last seen in a limbo dimension.

Bart Allen had the ability to survive changes in time but was, I think, dead in Flashpoint? (I kind of have hope he'll come back in Super-sons.)

Ignition was shown to be immune to reality alteration and, incidentally, never had an origin or an identity reveal. Most people assume the Joker created him but it was an explicit plot point that he wasn't from the Jokerverse.

The Fourth World characters were shown to have meta-awareness in Multiversity.

Dammit. I'll just have to pick up Multiversity and give it a read. It looks like some of what happened there will inform/is informing the ongoing rebirth stuff.

Triumph. Last seen alive in Brave and the Bold: Supergirl and Raven, living outside time.

The Time Trapper, presumably. I always felt there was an untapped Time Trapper/Pandora connection.

Intriguing. Yeah, given the supposed BIG role Pandora had in the creation of new52, I thought said role (along with the whole "Trinity of Sin" and particularly The Question) was going to be explored further, but never was.

The Legion, possibly?

Well, given Saturn Girl's presence in the present and her cryptic remarks, I'd say so.

Rip Hunter, I think?

The old Waverider, possibly.

The DC One Million characters, particularly Hourman, seem likely to be aware what's going on.

I'd say Rip Hunter is somewhere out there, outside of time, along with Booster Gold. As for the DC One Million characters, educated guess or have they appeared recently?

[Patrick Gerard]

Well, new52 Metallo was kinda heroic (or something like that). But yeah, given all this craziness, it's entirely possible we could see Kenny down the line.



Thanks a lot. Yup, it looks very much like old Waverider.



Dammit. I'll just have to pick up Multiversity and give it a read. It looks like some of what happened there will inform/is informing the ongoing rebirth stuff.



Intriguing. Yeah, given the supposed BIG role Pandora had in the creation of new52, I thought said role (along with the whole "Trinity of Sin" and particularly The Question) was going to be explored further, but never was.



Well, given Saturn Girl's presence in the present and her cryptic remarks, I'd say so.



I'd say Rip hunter is somewhere out there, outside of time, along with Booster Gold. As for the DC One Million characters, educated guess or have they appeared recently?

They were in Convergence. One or more died though my memory's hazy. Hourman is an easy "go to" since he was a disciple of Metron (who should have meta-awareness of timeline changes) and specifically a student of time.

Oh... And did we ever get follow-up on Liri Lee of the Linear Men abducting Lex's daughter Lena after posing as Lena's nanny? The Linear Men in general are probably somewhat "Crisis-proof".

[666MasterOfPuppets]

They were in Convergence. One or more died though my memory's hazy. Hourman is an easy "go to" since he was a disciple of Metron (who should have meta-awareness of timeline changes) and specifically a student of time.

Yes... I seem to recall DCOM Superman making an appearance, although I can't remember how integral were those characters to the plot.

Oh... And did we ever get follow-up on Liri Lee of the Linear Men abducting Lex's daughter Lena after posing as Lena's nanny? The Linear Men in general are probably somewhat "Crisis-proof".

This was pre-FP, right?

[manofsteel1979]

They were in Convergence. One or more died though my memory's hazy. Hourman is an easy "go to" since he was a disciple of Metron (who should have meta-awareness of timeline changes) and specifically a student of time.

Oh... And did we ever get follow-up on Liri Lee of the Linear Men abducting Lex's daughter Lena after posing as Lena's nanny? The Linear Men in general are probably somewhat "Crisis-proof".

Nope, there was never a follow up with Lena. I chalk it up to the writers wanting to get rid of the kid so they essentially just had her disappear.

I could see a future creator team with a bias against Superman as a father do something similar with Jon, btw. Because DC.

[Atomic Man]

I know, right? It should be solid yellow with an oval buckle.

Preach!

I swear you guys aren't going to be satisfied until you get a one hundred percent faithful remake of the classic suit. I just got though reading the hardcover of unchained and in the back there is acover gallery of all the different Supermen from 1930's to Nu52 each one has a slight variation to the suit. (They count 1930's and Golden age as separate Supermen). The Superman that comes back after Doomsday is interestingly enough called Superman Reborn. I don't see what's the big dea,l Superman use to have straps on his boots or a Gold Shield for an emblem. Things change.

You're damn right some of us won't be happy until the ICONIC suit is back. It's the first of its kind, it spawned a new and completely unprecedented look for a new genre of storytelling, it's a perfect balancing of color and design, and at the end of the day, it IS Superman. No one but a very small minority of self-important nerds is really bothered by the look. I guaran-damn-tee the general audience doesn't care at all. Do they think it's funny? Perhaps, but when people I know who aren't comic book fans talk about NotSoSuperman's awful suit or New 52 Superman's armor, they don't say "Oh, that's Superman." They ask "Where are his underwear?" It may seem silly, but people accept it, just like other "silly" looks are accepted in the real world. Look at the uniforms of the Swiss Guards who guard the pope. Their uniforms look like clown suits, yet they've remained unchanged for centuries and are taken very seriously. Try going up to one of them and telling them their suits are "dated" and "things change." They carry machine guns while wearing those suits. Nothing to laugh at there.

Also, you seem to think it's a crime/sin/failing that some of us want the classic uniform back. That's unfair, as we have every right to demand the classic and iconic version of a character.

Well, most of his costume was pretty well fixed by the mid-40s and only varied based on things that could be chalked up to art style differences (big S, small S, curved bottom or flat bottom "S", which way the spitcurl went, flat-top or angled boots) for 65 or so years, aside from temporary, storyline-specific costumes.

And I do get how "underpants on the outside" and "secret identity" are two of the more important defining aspects of being a super-hero. Without some markers like that, what you have is a sci-fi action hero that could include anime characters or Buffy or Indiana Jones rather than the much more narrowly defined "40s circus strongman with mystery man/caped avenger elements". So there is the argument, much like the pineapples on pizza discussion in pop culture, that in order to be super-hero and not just general sci-fi action, you have to do things that would feel peculiar or awkward anywhere EXCEPT a super-hero comic.

I'm not taking quite that hard a line but I *get* why people cling to that stuff. I do think you shouldn't try to make these characters appealing to people but should make these characters the best versions of what they are and let people love or hate that on merit. As opposed to trying to court an audience.

Well-said as usual. By the reasoning the anti-trunks camp uses, superheroes should have stopped wearing capes after The Incredibles made them seem unnecessary, or superheroes should all wear armored suits because that's "realistic." Like Grant Morrison has said so well on many occasions, these are comic books, NOT reality. They're fantasy, and if you're going to question/attack the basic look of superheroes, you might as well go and read something else.

Nope, there was never a follow up with Lena. I chalk it up to the writers wanting to get rid of the kid so they essentially just had her disappear.

I could see a future creator team with a bias against Superman as a father do something similar with Jon, btw. Because DC.

I hope Rebirth will mark the end (for a few decades at least) of the anti-marriage, anti-kid agenda. It's creatively bankrupt and just plain stupid.

[Patrick Gerard]

Nope, there was never a follow up with Lena. I chalk it up to the writers wanting to get rid of the kid so they essentially just had her disappear.

I could see a future creator team with a bias against Superman as a father do something similar with Jon, btw. Because DC.

I always thought you could get a nice "bargaining stance" with Lex in a story by having the Linear Men offer him the daughter he forgot in exchange for standing down.

[Patrick Gerard]

Yes... I seem to recall DCOM Superman making an appearance, although I can't remember how integral were those characters to the plot.



This was pre-FP, right?

Yeah. Pre-FP. One of the later Mark Schultz stories in Man of Steel.

[Patrick Gerard]

Incidentally, I'm not a wrestling guy but I have thought about trying to go "back to the source" and do a fresh take on the super-hero with the next creator-owned comic I do. I was spitballing some stuff with Brian Augustyn a few months ago.

While doing research, I was thinking about what today's strongman is. I was looking at Cirque du Soleil and pro-wrestling costumes.

Something I noticed: wrestler costumes now tend to have logos on the thigh, crotch, or posterior.

I was thinking: what if, kind of going back to the source for super-heroes, you have an alien from a planet where everyone dresses like luchadores and has crotch logos? Underpants on the outside seem relatively tame and benevolent compared to an alien race that introduces itself by expecting you to identify them by their crotch logo family crest.

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

wow looks like you guys don't even need me on this one, as you guys already put up a greatly articulated position regarding supes suit. But I'll post some of the hightlights lol.

Well, most of his costume was pretty well fixed by the mid-40s and only varied based on things that could be chalked up to art style differences (big S, small S, curved bottom or flat bottom "S", which way the spitcurl went, flat-top or angled boots) for 65 or so years, aside from temporary, storyline-specific costumes.

And I do get how "underpants on the outside" and "secret identity" are two of the more important defining aspects of being a super-hero. Without some markers like that, what you have is a sci-fi action hero that could include anime characters or Buffy or Indiana Jones rather than the much more narrowly defined "40s circus strongman with mystery man/caped avenger elements".

yep both of those elements represent what superhero comics should be. I mean without "underwear on the outside" he's just wearing pants...like everyday people wear pants...nothing super about pants lol.

Preach!
You're damn right some of us won't be happy until the ICONIC suit is back. It's the first of its kind, it spawned a new and completely unprecedented look for a new genre of storytelling, it's a perfect balancing of color and design, and at the end of the day, it IS Superman. No one but a very small minority of self-important nerds is really bothered by the look. I guaran-damn-tee the general audience doesn't care at all. Do they think it's funny? Perhaps, but when people I know who aren't comic book fans talk about NotSoSuperman's awful suit or New 52 Superman's armor, they don't say "Oh, that's Superman." They ask "Where are his underwear?" It may seem silly, but people accept it, just like other "silly" looks are accepted in the real world. Look at the uniforms of the Swiss Guards who guard the pope. Their uniforms look like clown suits, yet they've remained unchanged for centuries and are taken very seriously. Try going up to one of them and telling them their suits are "dated" and "things change." They carry machine guns while wearing those suits. Nothing to laugh at there.

hallelujah brother, it's his look, it's the most widely seen and marketed version of him, always will be.

Alas They're fantasy, and if you're going to question/attack the basic look of superheroes, you might as well go and read something else.
I hope Rebirth will mark the end (for a few decades at least) of the anti-marriage, anti-kid agenda. It's creatively bankrupt and just plain stupid.

yeah my sentiments aswell, and after the epic critical flop and failure to attain a new reader base with the New 52. I think it's safe to say "been there, done that" let's get back to superhero's as they should be.

[victorsage]

Booster Gold would actually be an interesting choice, since he would know the entire history.

The real question is, is the images drawn to look child like because they were drawn by a child (or child like being), or simply because the person drawing them was having a difficult time doing so. In others ward had a problem doing it power wise. If it's a power thing, and not a mentality thing, it could be a lot of people from the history.