Is Geoff Johns connecting the end of Infinite Crisis to Rebirth at all?

[theonetruebatman]

At the end of the fight with Superboy-Prime on MOGO Kal-L spoke to Lois much in the same way that New 52 Lois spoke to New 52 Superman when she was dying. In Rebirth Wally says something that has struck a chord with me. He mentions that the whomever is responsible for the loss of ten years started with Flashpoint, however, they may have been there manipulating things even before that.

The reason that E-2 Superman came back from the Paradise dimension was because of the blatant darkness that had encompassed the universe since COIE. Rebirth is also the reaction to a blatant darkness that is taken over the DCU since Flashpoint (and possibly before).

The way that these characters reacted upon death is incredibly similar and it makes me wonder if since Geoff Johns is directly and indirectly involved with those respective stories if they are somehow tied together as this is a continuity and definitely era spanning story as evidenced by the 3 Jokers and Psycho Pirate's involvement in the initiative.

What do you guys think?

[Patrick Gerard]

At the end of the fight with Superboy-Prime on MOGO Kal-L spoke to Lois much in the same way that New 52 Lois spoke to New 52 Superman when she was dying. In Rebirth Wally says something that has struck a chord with me. He mentions that the whomever is responsible for the loss of ten years started with Flashpoint, however, they may have been there manipulating things even before that.

The reason that E-2 Superman came back from the Paradise dimension was because of the blatant darkness that had encompassed the universe since COIE. Rebirth is also the reaction to a blatant darkness that is taken over the DCU since Flashpoint (and possibly before).

The way that these characters reacted upon death is incredibly similar and it makes me wonder if since Geoff Johns is directly and indirectly involved with those respective stories if they are somehow tied together as this is a continuity and definitely era spanning story as evidenced by the 3 Jokers and Psycho Pirate's involvement in the initiative.

What do you guys think?

I would love it if that's the case and with due respect to Val-Zod, I'd like it if Kal-L came back and went home to Earth-2 and his return rebooted Earth-2 into something more classic. Granted, if the JSA exist on the main earth, Earth-2 needs to be distinct. So, I'm not necessarily gunning for a 1:1 parallel of pre-COIE E-2 or the erasing of everything in Earth 2 Society, etc.

I actually think my dream Earth-2 at this point would have Kal-L (Fleisher S?), a Jay similar to the Flash TV show, Bombshells characters, Red Son elements, H.G. Wells Martians, etc. Maybe versions of some characters like Morrison's Secret Society of Super-Heroes. Fawcett Marvel Family. A retro clutter earth. Heck, maybe the Legion of Super-Heroes from that alternate reality the Time Trapper made with a Golden-Age Legion. Retro deco World's Fair earth. Toss in some Batman: The Animated Series elements. Gotham with police zeppelins.

Not necessarily the 40s or a "real time" earth (Generations Earth has that covered) but a world where the 1939 World's Fair predictions were more accurate and people have a mix of 40s and Buck Rogers fashion sense and slang present day.

[Prime]

At the end of the fight with Superboy-Prime on MOGO Kal-L spoke to Lois much in the same way that New 52 Lois spoke to New 52 Superman when she was dying. In Rebirth Wally says something that has struck a chord with me. He mentions that the whomever is responsible for the loss of ten years started with Flashpoint, however, they may have been there manipulating things even before that.

The reason that E-2 Superman came back from the Paradise dimension was because of the blatant darkness that had encompassed the universe since COIE. Rebirth is also the reaction to a blatant darkness that is taken over the DCU since Flashpoint (and possibly before).

The way that these characters reacted upon death is incredibly similar and it makes me wonder if since Geoff Johns is directly and indirectly involved with those respective stories if they are somehow tied together as this is a continuity and definitely era spanning story as evidenced by the 3 Jokers and Psycho Pirate's involvement in the initiative.

What do you guys think?

Dr. Manhattan can't bring people back from the dead though.

[stephens2177]

I would love it if that's the case and with due respect to Val-Zod, I'd like it if Kal-L came back and went home to Earth-2 and his return rebooted Earth-2 into something more classic. Granted, if the JSA exist on the main earth, Earth-2 needs to be distinct. So, I'm not necessarily gunning for a 1:1 parallel of pre-COIE E-2 or the erasing of everything in Earth 2 Society, etc.

I actually think my dream Earth-2 at this point would have Kal-L (Fleisher S?), a Jay similar to the Flash TV show, Bombshells characters, Red Son elements, H.G. Wells Martians, etc. Maybe versions of some characters like Morrison's Secret Society of Super-Heroes. Fawcett Marvel Family. A retro clutter earth. Heck, maybe the Legion of Super-Heroes from that alternate reality the Time Trapper made with a Golden-Age Legion. Retro deco World's Fair earth. Toss in some Batman: The Animated Series elements. Gotham with police zeppelins.

Not necessarily the 40s or a "real time" earth (Generations Earth has that covered) but a world where the 1939 World's Fair predictions were more accurate and people have a mix of 40s and Buck Rogers fashion sense and slang present day.

Man someone needs to draw what's in your brain on paper

[Sacred Knight]

I'd love it if a "new" Earth 2 Kal-L returned. Val-Zod is boring, absolutely no reason to cater toward a rather unpopular character.

[stephens2177]

I'd love it if a "new" Earth 2 Kal-L returned. Val-Zod is boring, absolutely no reason to cater toward a rather unpopular character.

He is superman in name only,so yes I totally agree

[manofsteel1979]

If any Superman deserves a resurrection, it's Kal-L. His death in IC and his desecration as a black lantern is the worst thing Geoff ever did with Superman.

[stephens2177]

If any Superman deserves a resurrection, it's Kal-L. His death in IC and his desecration as a black lantern is the worst thing Geoff ever did with Superman.

Totally agree,Geoff for some.reason believes every superman or superboy from the past are cannon fodder and can be used with as little respect as possible instead of respecting them as just as important as the present day versions

[manofsteel1979]

Totally agree,Geoff for some.reason believes every superman or superboy from the past are cannon fodder and can be used with as little respect as possible instead of respecting them as just as important as the present day versions

I mean, as crappy as what happened to Nuperman was, it pales in comparison to the way KAL-L died. He was brutally beaten to death by a demented fanboy. Nuperman at least got a heroes death surrounded by his loved ones .

[Atomic Man]

I would love it if that's the case and with due respect to Val-Zod, I'd like it if Kal-L came back and went home to Earth-2 and his return rebooted Earth-2 into something more classic. Granted, if the JSA exist on the main earth, Earth-2 needs to be distinct. So, I'm not necessarily gunning for a 1:1 parallel of pre-COIE E-2 or the erasing of everything in Earth 2 Society, etc.

I actually think my dream Earth-2 at this point would have Kal-L (Fleisher S?), a Jay similar to the Flash TV show, Bombshells characters, Red Son elements, H.G. Wells Martians, etc. Maybe versions of some characters like Morrison's Secret Society of Super-Heroes. Fawcett Marvel Family. A retro clutter earth. Heck, maybe the Legion of Super-Heroes from that alternate reality the Time Trapper made with a Golden-Age Legion. Retro deco World's Fair earth. Toss in some Batman: The Animated Series elements. Gotham with police zeppelins.

Not necessarily the 40s or a "real time" earth (Generations Earth has that covered) but a world where the 1939 World's Fair predictions were more accurate and people have a mix of 40s and Buck Rogers fashion sense and slang present day.

Either demand that DC allow you to write this book (with art by Doc Shaner) or do it as a fan comic. This is tremendous stuff.

Dr. Manhattan can't bring people back from the dead though.

If we go by Convergence, Kal-L is still very much alive. I hope that Rebirth addresses how Convergence actually affected the COIE.

If any Superman deserves a resurrection, it's Kal-L. His death in IC and his desecration as a black lantern is the worst thing Geoff ever did with Superman.

Absolutely agree. Doesn't Convergence mean he's alive, though? If Earth-2 wasn't destroyed with COIE in light of Convergence, Kal is still alive with Lois on Earth-2. Same with Prime.

Totally agree,Geoff for some.reason believes every superman or superboy from the past are cannon fodder and can be used with as little respect as possible instead of respecting them as just as important as the present day versions

I have never forgiven this and until someone redeems Superboy Prime, I never will. I have been hoping that New 52 Superman was, in fact, a Manhattan-altered Prime, but that's not looking as likely anymore.

I mean, as crappy as what happened to Nuperman was, it pales in comparison to the way KAL-L died. He was brutally beaten to death by a demented fanboy. Nuperman at least got a heroes death surrounded by his loved ones .

I remember reading that the first time and hoping that, somehow, it was going to be stopped, that someone was going to step in and save Kal-L.

[stephens2177]

Wasn't kal-l on the new earth 2 in the new 52,and didn't they kill him in the 1st issue?

Course they are on a new earth 2 now so maybe we will get another kal-l,maybe 1 who is older and has most of the same history as kal-l always had

[Netherman14]

Scratch that, it's nothing alike.

[Atomic Man]

Wasn't kal-l on the new earth 2 in the new 52,and didn't they kill him in the 1st issue?

Course they are on a new earth 2 now so maybe we will get another kal-l,maybe 1 who is older and has most of the same history as kal-l always had

The post-Flashpoint Earth-2 characters aren't (as far as we know) the same as the Earth-2 characters who migrated to New Earth after the COIE. The Superman that died on the post-Flashpoint Earth-2 died in the past of that series' first issue.

[bat39]

The post-Flashpoint Earth-2 characters aren't (as far as we know) the same as the Earth-2 characters who migrated to New Earth after the COIE. The Superman that died on the post-Flashpoint Earth-2 died in the past of that series' first issue.

Pretty much.

In fact, the post-Flashpoint E2 Superman, if anything, is essentially an alternate timeline version of Nuperman. Earth 2 was recreated post-IC as being essentially Earth 0 with one of its divergent timelines actualized. And it seems that when Earth 0 was altered, many of the other Multiversal earths were affected too, including Earth 2.

[Patrick Gerard]

Pretty much.

In fact, the post-Flashpoint E2 Superman, if anything, is essentially an alternate timeline version of Nuperman. Earth 2 was recreated post-IC as being essentially Earth 0 withmayne this is too one of its divergent timelines actualized. And it seems that when Earth 0 was altered, many of the other Multiversal earths were affected too, including Earth 2.

Maybe this is too "inside baseball" but I'd pay good money to see the Justice Society Infinity getting rebooted into the characters from the Earth-2 book.