Kitty and Racheal? Looks like it!

[Slicknickshady]

Considering the Comics Code prevented them from being explicit, there's quite a lot of implicit things pointed out in this thread. The Kitty/Illyana soul bond thing, the fact that the two of them were literally the only roommates in the mansion (none of the New Mutants had roommates), the fact that Kate Pryde referred to Rachel as "My Love" and they talked about their mental bond. The fact that they're often touching and holding hands. The cake scene between Kitty and Courtney Ross that's obviously a seduction scene with Kitty saying "yes." I don't know what else you could do and still get your book published.

The Courtney Ross doppelgänger but yeah I see you're point on that one!

[Mike_Murdock]

Yeah, although it's unclear if the writers even remembered that at the time.

[DDM]

I mean Mystique and Destiny weren't officially outed until what, 2001? And they were just villains at that point still while Kitty/Rachel/Illyana are core protagonists. Kitty especially is considered one of the iconic X-Men, Marvel won't allow her official status to change unless a big enough name wants to do it (like Bendis with Iceman) and finally confirm what's been implied for decades.

[Maestroneto]

Can Marc Guggenheim be considered a big enough name? He's one of the architects of a succesful TV universe.

[DDM]

Can Marc Guggenheim be considered a big enough name? He's one of the architects of a succesful TV universe.

I hope so but first we have to get him on board.

[FUBAR007]

lol, I was referring to ANOTHER time he confirmed it: http://www.xplainthexmen.com/2016/03...ris-claremont/.

It's cute you try so hard to dismiss Claremont's viewpoint though, one that he was deliberately layering into the work is so glaringly obvious with even a superficial read. Not just in the The End but also Excalibur, True Friends, X-Treme X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. It really is right there.

RE: "lol", "It's cute..."--don't be a troll. It's rude.

I'm not dismissing his comments; I'm pointing out a contradiction between his comments and the published work he was referencing. Now, I'll go one better and explain it. With Kitty/Rachel and Kitty's kids in X-Men: The End, he's referring to the ending he intended, not the one that was published. He had health problems during production of the final issue and wasn't able to ensure that what saw print was the story he had in mind. See comments of Claremont's reposted here: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...php?p=14765408. This also explains the continuity discrepancies between X-Men: The End and GeNext such as Cyclops and Gambit being alive in the latter when they died in the former.

As for Kitty/Rachel being "glaringly obvious" all along, you're projecting your own interpretation onto what was portrayed and citing it as canon when, in the very podcast you cite as "proof", Claremont says he deliberately left it ambiguous to allow for different interpretations...just as I suggested as a likely possibility in my previous post. Your personal headcanon is not canon. Accordingly, your interpretation is not the only valid one nor the definitively "correct" one.

Also, in that podcast, I'd like to point out that, after talking about his idea for Kitty/Rachel in The End, he later talks about intending to pair Kitty off with Gambit. Clearly, CC doesn't think about these stories as a single, continuous narrative, but rather as multiple, alternate narratives (as they are).

[Sardorim]

Published work clearly established them as more than just friends. What they have is far beyond friendship and if they were opposite genders there's no doubt they would have been together years ago in an age that didn't exactly promote lgbt that much did to societal stigma that still plagues us in this age.

[DDM]

RE: "lol", "It's cute..."--don't be a troll. It's rude.

I'm not dismissing his comments; I'm pointing out a contradiction between his comments and the published work he was referencing. Now, I'll go one better and explain it. With Kitty/Rachel and Kitty's kids in X-Men: The End, he's referring to the ending he intended, not the one that was published. He had health problems during production of the final issue and wasn't able to ensure that what saw print was the story he had in mind. See comments of Claremont's reposted here: http://forums.superherohype.com/show...php?p=14765408. This also explains the continuity discrepancies between X-Men: The End and GeNext such as Cyclops and Gambit being alive in the latter when they died in the former.

As for Kitty/Rachel being "glaringly obvious" all along, you're projecting your own interpretation onto what was portrayed and citing it as canon when, in the very podcast you cite as "proof", Claremont says he deliberately left it ambiguous to allow for different interpretations...just as I suggested as a likely possibility in my previous post. Your personal headcanon is not canon. Accordingly, your interpretation is not the only valid one nor the definitively "correct" one.

Also, in that podcast, I'd like to point out that, after talking about his idea for Kitty/Rachel in The End, he later talks about intending to pair Kitty off with Gambit. Clearly, CC doesn't think about these stories as a single, continuous narrative, but rather as multiple, alternate narratives (as they are).

Okay, I'll just take Claremont's headcanon then. Subtext as text.

Also I called you cute and you called me rude. Now who's rude.

[Slicknickshady]

Claremont is my fave X-Men Writer. But right now the canon is still Kitty is straight.

It can always change. Look at Iceman.

[DDM]

According to Claremont himself the canon is... ambiguous. Has Kitty ever said she's straight? If not then she isn't canonically. :3

[lowfyr]

I think regarding Claremonts Work in the Eighties it would be easier to list women who were intended as straight because it would be a very short list.
Others were more or less subtile shown to be at least bi. Mystique and Destiny were shown to be a couple and just not so named because of the code.
Ororo and Yukio, Rachel kitty and Ilyana were not so blatant but the signs were there.

[DDM]

Not just the women. Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Cypher, Warlock. Plenty of the guys had their subtextual moments too. Claremont even said once he always saw Logan as bisexual.

[Wiccan]

Can Marc Guggenheim be considered a big enough name? He's one of the architects of a succesful TV universe.

He's not on The Flash or Supergirl, who are the most succeful shows of this universe. And I think it's kinda obvious how Arrow became a bit of a joke, and that happened when the other producers started focusing on Flash and he was the one doing most of the job. Besides most of his comics being ok at best.

[Magik]

I'm more on the Kitty/Illyana train myself.

Same! They're soulmates.

Did anyone see this?
https://sniperct.tumblr.com/post/152...heterosexualtm

[Sardorim]

Claremont is my fave X-Men Writer. But right now the canon is still Kitty is straight.

It can always change. Look at Iceman.

If Kitty does come out as at least bi than either Rachel or Magik better be her lover.