Was New 52 doomed from the start?

[Minerboh]

The majority of the world doesn't care about Superman comics, much less knew anything about Superman wearing a crappy 90s suit.

It's a shame, but it's the truth. People constantly bash Superman for being irrelevant, but the problem is that DC has done its damnedest to make his books second to Batman's and they went so far as to turn him into Batman Lite in his first new movie in over 30 years. The armor was never the problem, though I agree that it certainly was awful.

Partially agreed with this. People do find themselves more attracted to Batman. But...
In a comparison between New 52 Superman and Post Crisis Superman, the latter comes victorious.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I wouldn't think so. I guess it depends on what eras of Post-Crisis Superman we're using for comparison, and different strokes and all that.

[TheCape]

I wouldn't think so. I guess it depends on what eras of Post-Crisis Superman we're using for comparison, and different strokes and all that.

The actual Post-Crisis era is the 1986 to 2003 period, it wasn't flawless, but it was better just for the fact. that, for the longest time (until Loeb/Kelly at least), they have a singular vision with the charather and build over that, New 52 has a strong star, but it didn't take too long to became into a mess, the first signs of warning came when Perez and Morrison were out of sync with eacth other.

[Lokimaru]

The majority of the world doesn't care about Superman comics, much less knew anything about Superman wearing a crappy 90s suit.

It's a shame, but it's the truth. People constantly bash Superman for being irrelevant, but the problem is that DC has done its damnedest to make his books second to Batman's and they went so far as to turn him into Batman Lite in his first new movie in over 30 years. The armor was never the problem, though I agree that it certainly was awful.

How in the Hell was he Batman lite? See your one of the problems I have with Superman fans. They just want the cartoon, the parody that superman has been for the last 50 goddamn years. When someone actually tries to write him with any ...meat they rebel and say that's not Superman. Hell if Anything it's Bruce that owes Clark Royalties for all the **** he's appropriated over the years from the Superman mythos. When all is said and done Superman is just a guy from the sticks trying to help out as best he can. Where is that Not represented in both MoS or BvS?

[Jon Clark]

When all is said and done Superman is just a guy from the sticks trying to help out as best he can. Where is that Not represented in both MoS or BvS?

The problem is that Superman isn't "a guy trying to do the best he can", he's larger than life- the Man of Tomorrow. As soon as you think in terms of what the average person would do in a given situation, you are not writing Superman.

[The World]

Rebooting Batman %100 would have been pretty illogical, same with Green Lantern. Both titles were on the rise and had a lot of good sentiments from fans. People at the time were excited to see where those franchises were headed, Superman on the other was in a dark place and frankly a lot of it had to do with the general mindset that seemed to be haunting Superman in regards to characterization.

Now the Flash was something that was weird in how they dealt with it given that sales were pretty good but they did a lot of plumping anyways in the N52. Still was a fun title in the beginning but they could have handled it much better than they did.

[FishyZombie]

How in the Hell was he Batman lite? See your one of the problems I have with Superman fans. They just want the cartoon, the parody that superman has been for the last 50 goddamn years. When someone actually tries to write him with any ...meat they rebel and say that's not Superman. Hell if Anything it's Bruce that owes Clark Royalties for all the **** he's appropriated over the years from the Superman mythos. When all is said and done Superman is just a guy from the sticks trying to help out as best he can. Where is that Not represented in both MoS or BvS?

I wouldn't call DCEU Superman Batman Lite. Granted one of the many problems with BvS is that the Superman/Batman dynamic was shitty since there was no real contrast between them, what with them both being unlikable mopey broody cynics. But they were both mopey broody cynical pricks for different reasons. Superman because most of the world saw him as a monster and Bats because, well his parents are deeeeeeeaaaaaad.

[Ascended]

Bats because, well his parents are deeeeeeeaaaaaad.

Are they? I hadn't realized. I mean, the guy barely talks about them at all you know? Good thing he's not some middle aged man still hung up on a childhood trauma. I mean, yeah, losing your parents is a terrible thing but only a sociopath would let it define and haunt them throughout adulthood.



Disclaimer: This is just sarcasm for the sake of fun. By no means am I trying to offend anyone or bring back painful memories of loss. Its all in good fun here, no need to be alarmed.

[FishyZombie]

Are they? I hadn't realized. I mean, the guy barely talks about them at all you know? Good thing he's not some middle aged man still hung up on a childhood trauma. I mean, yeah, losing your parents is a terrible thing but only a sociopath would let it define and haunt them throughout adulthood.



Disclaimer: This is just sarcasm for the sake of fun. By no means am I trying to offend anyone or bring back painful memories of loss. Its all in good fun here, no need to be alarmed.

you monster.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The actual Post-Crisis era is the 1986 to 2003 period, it wasn't flawless, but it was better just for the fact. that, for the longest time (until Loeb/Kelly at least), they have a singular vision with the charather and build over that, New 52 has a strong star, but it didn't take too long to became into a mess, the first signs of warning came when Perez and Morrison were out of sync with eacth other.

You're right when pointing out that it was a bad sign. However, the Perez/Morrison issue wasn't something that couldn't have been fixed. And IMO, it was once AC caught up with Superman. I'd say the disaster came with the DCYou era of the new52.

[TheCape]

You're right when pointing out that it was a bad sign. However, the Perez/Morrison issue wasn't something that couldn't have been fixed. And IMO, it was once AC caught up with Superman. I'd say the disaster came with the DCYou era of the new52.

Of course that it could have been fix, everything can be fix if you put some effort into it, same thing can be said about Pre-Flashpoint and Pre-Crisis, we didn't need a reboot, just good consistent storytelling, that's the only medicine that every version of Superman in a dark place needs. That being said, the problems were there before DCYou (and if you want to go even more backwards, before the reboot too). But they didn't and even i don't aprove how we got here, i'm pleased and cautiolly optimistic about the future (emphasis in "cautiolly")

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Of course that it could have been fix, everything can be fix if you put some effort into it, same thing can be said about Pre-Flashpoint and Pre-Crisis, we didn't need a reboot, just good consistent storytelling, that's the only medicine that every version of Superman in a dark place needs. That being said, the problems were there before DCYou (and if you want to go even more backwards, before the reboot too). But they didn't and even i don't aprove how we got here, i'm pleased and cautiolly optimistic about the future (emphasis in "cautiolly")

Wish I could be that optimistic. I mean, even if they manage to "get it right" this time, how long will it last? My guess is not long.