how are batman and detective comics currently?

[Caivu]

I'd still be reading it if 'Tec were at Dixon's level. To me it reads more like fanfiction by someone really into the Dixon era.

And fanfiction's a bad thing... why?
What specific issues do you have with the writing? Just saying "it's fanfiction" as a negative is nebulous at best.

Is it the plot progression? Things not making sense? Character actions being unclear? What is it, specifically?

[Jadeb]

And fanfiction's a bad thing... why?
What specific issues do you have with the writing? Just saying "it's fanfiction" as a negative is nebulous at best.

Is it the plot progression? Things not making sense? Character actions being unclear? What is it, specifically?

Fanfiction's fine, but it's free. I'm not interested in paying $2.99 twice a month for it.

I dislike Tynion's take on the book because he seems more interested in writing "Look how cool I am" moments for his favorite characters than in telling satisfying stories with strong plots and effective conclusions.

[Caivu]

I dislike Tynion's take on the book because he seems more interested in writing "Look how cool I am" moments for his favorite characters than in telling satisfying stories with strong plots and effective conclusions.

What does this mean? What about the plots aren't strong? What's unsatisfying about the conclusions?

I think he's balancing all three elements wonderfully.

[JasonTodd428]

What does this mean? What about the plots aren't strong? What's unsatisfying about the conclusions?

I think he's balancing all three elements wonderfully.

I think he's doing a very good job with the characters but that his plots and conclusions need a lot of work to be on the same level as his character work. That's just a personal opinion though.

[Jadeb]

What does this mean? What about the plots aren't strong? What's unsatisfying about the conclusions?

I think he's balancing all three elements wonderfully.

I lost interest the second or third time he had our heroes surrounded by a huge number of villains in a situation that they can't possibly escape, only to have them escape just 'cause. That sort of scenario can be a lot of fun if the heroes escape as the payoff to a previous story beat or because they find a clever solution, but Tynion has them overcome impossible odds just because of the characters' inherent awesomeness, which is, for me, really dull. When major story points happen solely at the writer's whim (rather than because circumstances in the story have set the stage for them to happen), it makes the whole thing feel pointless. Tim was a prime example of this. His magic button could do anything, and he could hack into anything, until he couldn't.

A good writer establishes cause-and-effect, and Tynion fails that test for me too often. The effect is very fannish.

[millernumber1]

I think he's doing a very good job with the characters but that his plots and conclusions need a lot of work to be on the same level as his character work. That's just a personal opinion though.

I tend to agree that Tynion's conclusions are usually not as strong as his beginnings and middles, but I think for Tec, he's really come through on his conclusions. Rise of the Batmen and The Victim Syndicate had really strong conclusions that followed thematically and character-development wise from their setup, and were really fun scenes that had all the emotions and action I wanted from my favorite characters.

[Caivu]

I lost interest the second or third time he had our heroes surrounded by a huge number of villains in a situation that they can't possibly escape, only to have them escape just 'cause. That sort of scenario can be a lot of fun if the heroes escape as the payoff to a previous story beat or because they find a clever solution, but Tynion has them overcome impossible odds just because of the characters' inherent awesomeness, which is, for me, really dull. When major story points happen solely at the writer's whim (rather than because circumstances in the story have set the stage for them to happen), it makes the whole thing feel pointless. Tim was a prime example of this. His magic button could do anything, and he could hack into anything, until he couldn't.

But they don't escape "just 'cause". The only time that even kind of makes sense is their escape from the Belfry. When they attacked the Cave, they succeeded by launching a surprise attack on the Colony's home turf and by being really damn aggressive about it. Not to mention that they weren't sticking around for a prolonged battle, but basically doing a smash-and-grab. Not sure what the third one is that you mean.

Tim's hacking also had reasons for why it failed, which were explained.

[Jadeb]

But they don't escape "just 'cause". The only time that even kind of makes since is their escape from the Belfry. When they attacked the Cave, they succeeded by launching a surprise attack on the Colony's home turf and by being really damn aggressive about it. Not to mention that they weren't sticking around for a prolonged battle, but basically doing a smash-and-grab. Not sure what the third one is that you mean.

Tim's hacking also had reasons for why it failed, which were explained.

I'm glad you're enjoying the book. I'd really like to. Maybe I'll give it another shot once Tim comes back.

[Godlike13]

'Tec is more like a poor imitation of the Dixon era, with non of Dixon's characters save for Steph and a little bit of Tim.

[millernumber1]

'Tec is more like a poor imitation of the Dixon era, with non of Dixon's characters save for Steph and a little bit of Tim.

How is it poor? I think it takes the best aspects of the Dixon era - a generally friendly and expanding Batfamily, consistently fun stories that ask some solid but not earth shattering questions about the characters and the world of Batman, three major characters from Dixon's era - Tim, Steph, and Azrael - and you can make an argument for Cass, since Dixon wrote her several times, and marries them to the current continuity (Batwoman, Batwing), adding in some new elements (Clayface), and updating a few things that I think make it better - Batman being a bit less inflexible, willing to hug Steph and try to make things right (though Dixon did have Batman admitting fault when he revealed Tim's identity to Steph in old continuity).

It also has that "isn't this fun!" aspect that makes Dixon really re-readable - you can tell both Dixon and Tynion think that being Batman or one of his partners would be the BEST. Which I enjoy.

[joybeans]

How is it poor? I think it takes the best aspects of the Dixon era - a generally friendly and expanding Batfamily, consistently fun stories that ask some solid but not earth shattering questions about the characters and the world of Batman, three major characters from Dixon's era - Tim, Steph, and Azrael - and you can make an argument for Cass, since Dixon wrote her several times, and marries them to the current continuity (Batwoman, Batwing), adding in some new elements (Clayface), and updating a few things that I think make it better - Batman being a bit less inflexible, willing to hug Steph and try to make things right (though Dixon did have Batman admitting fault when he revealed Tim's identity to Steph in old continuity).

It also has that "isn't this fun!" aspect that makes Dixon really re-readable - you can tell both Dixon and Tynion think that being Batman or one of his partners would be the BEST. Which I enjoy.

I wouldn't really say it's friendly. If anything, 'Tec is a lot more conflict-driven. There's always turmoil, or drama, or something that threatens Gotham on a city-wide scale, leaving little room for just downtime.

[Godlike13]

How is it poor? I think it takes the best aspects of the Dixon era - a generally friendly and expanding Batfamily, consistently fun stories that ask some solid but not earth shattering questions about the characters and the world of Batman, three major characters from Dixon's era - Tim, Steph, and Azrael - and you can make an argument for Cass, since Dixon wrote her several times, and marries them to the current continuity (Batwoman, Batwing), adding in some new elements (Clayface), and updating a few things that I think make it better - Batman being a bit less inflexible, willing to hug Steph and try to make things right (though Dixon did have Batman admitting fault when he revealed Tim's identity to Steph in old continuity).

It also has that "isn't this fun!" aspect that makes Dixon really re-readable - you can tell both Dixon and Tynion think that being Batman or one of his partners would be the BEST. Which I enjoy.

Dixon actually worked and innovated with the Bat family, not lesser imitations of fringe Bat associates plus Batwoman that 'Tec is trying to pawn off as Bat family. And ya, friendly family and fun stories, as evident by 'Tec's miserable and disillusioned Steph and her fun loving rant lol.

[millernumber1]

I wouldn't really say it's friendly. If anything, 'Tec is a lot more conflict-driven. There's always turmoil, or drama, or something that threatens Gotham on a city-wide scale, leaving little room for just downtime.

I mean friendly as compared to Snyder's (or Rucka/Brubaker's) disjointed, agnonized, almost never talking to each other Batfamily. Of course there's always drama - that's what makes the story. But the key moments of the Batfamily are ones where connection is sought, rather than avoided.

Dixon actually worked and innovated with the Bat family, not lesser imitations of fringe Bat associates plus Batwoman that 'Tec is trying to pawn off as Bat family. And ya, friendly family and fun stories, as evident by 'Tec's miserable and disillusioned Steph and her fun loving rant lol.

Could you expand on what you mean by "worked and innovated"? Because I don't see how what Tynion's doing with Spoiler, Orphan, Batwoman, Batwing, and Azrael is not innovating and expanding.

The Batfamily is one founded on loss and trauma - so naturally, it will be darker than the Superman family. But Steph's arc is one where the Batfamily is well meaning, not where people are deliberately playing mind games or freezing each other out like in War Games.

[Chrysalis_Changling]

well I've decided I'll hop back on batman with the current I Am Bane Story Arc and detective with the league of shadows story arc

hope i don't regret it

[Flash Gordon]

King's BATMAN has been thrilling. Can't speak for DETECTIVE COMICS.