A Superman guest appearance

[Truman Burbank]

sorta off topic, but not really since it realtes to the fortress, but I wonder what Superman will do with the ice place he has after reborn? He doesn't need two hidden ice locations does he?

The end of last week's Action Comics had a box that read "Next: The Fortress Falls!" I think after Henshaw's people were able to track Steel and find the location, we're going to see Blanque and Henshaw reconnect and bring it down. The question I have is "what survives?" There are the other characters in holding cells that are there for help, Kelex, etc.

[manofsteel1979]

The end of last week's Action Comics had a box that read "Next: The Fortress Falls!" I think after Henshaw's people were able to track Steel and find the location, we're going to see Blanque and Henshaw reconnect and bring it down. The question I have is "what survives?" There are the other characters in holding cells that are there for help, Kelex, etc.

Pity. I wouldn't mind Superman having several fortresses scattered about. I mean, if Batman can have a freaking second Batcave on the moon, why can't Superman have more than one lair?

[Netherman14]

Pity. I wouldn't mind Superman having several fortresses scattered about. I mean, if Batman can have a freaking second Batcave on the moon, why can't Superman have more than one lair?

Superman should get a Fortress on the moon, he actually can reach it on his own as well.

[GSman]

sorta off topic, but not really since it realtes to the fortress, but I wonder what Superman will do with the ice place he has after reborn? He doesn't need two hidden ice locations does he?

I also do wonder another thing if it's true and Nuperman and Superdad merge will the statues in the fortress disappear?

[manofsteel1979]

I also do wonder another thing if it's true and Nuperman and Superdad merge will the statues in the fortress disappear?

I hope not actually. If the Kent's are still gone those can stay, and Nuperman 's Should stay as a remanent from a strange time in Superman's life when his history was messed with through outside forces, and yet in spite of the best efforts to derail him , he still remained a hero. If anything a bit of meta commentary on the whole Nuperman era.

[GSman]

I hope not actually. If the Kent's are still gone those can stay, and Nuperman 's Should stay as a remanent from a strange time in Superman's life when his history was messed with through outside forces, and yet in spite of the best efforts to derail him , he still remained a hero. If anything a bit of meta commentary on the whole Nuperman era.

You know what I like that, you're a brilliant ideas man if you ask me.

[manofsteel1979]

Looking back, I think Morrison's run itself was metacommentary on the concept of the New 52. I don't think he really was all that excited about rebooting Supes,but while he was doing it, I guess he figured he could use some disgarded ideas for an ALL STAR SUPERMAN follow up, (the t-shirt and jeans paul bunyon/springsteen Supes, the Smallville and Luthor stuff). resurrect some obscure DC concepts (Susie Tompkins, Captain Comet) and critique the nature of DC as a company at a time, all the while leaving a door that could be utilized to undo it all and at the very least keep everything previous canon via the 5th dimensional stuff. All the while returning the swagger back to the character, which is the most important contribution of this past era, and thankfully seems to still be in place.

You can't tell me that SuperDoom and the story behind his creation in story, and the idea of these outside forces forcing external changes on Superman's life via Lord V and Mxy aren't allegories for DC and time Warners and how haphazardly and randomly the New 52 was forced on the creators. His whole mega arc was essentially sending the not too subtle message " that Superman the idea, the concept, the symbol and legend is unbreakable and will always find a way back to what makes him great. You may slap poorly designed armor, trash his iconic relationships and cast, try to transform him into something else for the sake of corporate whims and focus groups,but and the end of the day, you can't destroy him. He's bigger than all of us. He's Superman. At the end of the day, the Superman always claws his way back.

[Netherman14]

Looking back, I think Morrison's run itself was metacommentary on the concept of the New 52. I don't think he really was all that excited about rebooting Supes,but while he was doing it, I guess he figured he could use some disgarded ideas for an ALL STAR SUPERMAN follow up, (the t-shirt and jeans paul bunyon/springsteen Supes, the Smallville and Luthor stuff). resurrect some obscure DC concepts (Susie Tompkins, Captain Comet) and critique the nature of DC as a company at a time, all the while leaving a door that could be utilized to undo it all and at the very least keep everything previous canon via the 5th dimensional stuff. All the while returning the swagger back to the character, which is the most important contribution of this past era, and thankfully seems to still be in place.

You can't tell me that SuperDoom and the story behind his creation in story, and the idea of these outside forces forcing external changes on Superman's life via Lord V and Mxy aren't allegories for DC and time Warners and how haphazardly and randomly the New 52 was forced on the creators. His whole mega arc was essentially sending the not too subtle message " that Superman the idea, the concept, the symbol and legend is unbreakable and will always find a way back to what makes him great. You may slap poorly designed armor, trash his iconic relationships and cast, try to transform him into something else for the sake of corporate whims and focus groups,but and the end of the day, you can't destroy him. He's bigger than all of us. He's Superman. At the end of the day, the Superman always claws his way back.

I honestly doubt Morrison would write Superman if he wasn't at least partially excited for the chance to reboot Superman and bring back elements that have been rid of, and DC can't force him because he's....welll...he's Morrison, and he is one of the more prolific and famous modern comic book writers. and if they would have tried forcing his hand they would have also lost their Batman writer.

[Sacred Knight]

The end of last week's Action Comics had a box that read "Next: The Fortress Falls!" I think after Henshaw's people were able to track Steel and find the location, we're going to see Blanque and Henshaw reconnect and bring it down. The question I have is "what survives?" There are the other characters in holding cells that are there for help, Kelex, etc.

I'm not surprised. Its just one step in my mind to undoing the two Superman narrative, even if just symbolically at the moment. I hope Kelex makes it out. Beyond that I'm not at all saddened to see it go. The real Fortress will be literally his again when Reborn is done, most likely, so at the very least this one is certainly expendable.

And hey, another plus, it'll destroy the Donner statues, perhaps meta that that stupid origin will be gone.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Looking back, I think Morrison's run itself was metacommentary on the concept of the New 52. I don't think he really was all that excited about rebooting Supes,but while he was doing it, I guess he figured he could use some disgarded ideas for an ALL STAR SUPERMAN follow up, (the t-shirt and jeans paul bunyon/springsteen Supes, the Smallville and Luthor stuff). resurrect some obscure DC concepts (Susie Tompkins, Captain Comet) and critique the nature of DC as a company at a time, all the while leaving a door that could be utilized to undo it all and at the very least keep everything previous canon via the 5th dimensional stuff. All the while returning the swagger back to the character, which is the most important contribution of this past era, and thankfully seems to still be in place.

You can't tell me that SuperDoom and the story behind his creation in story, and the idea of these outside forces forcing external changes on Superman's life via Lord V and Mxy aren't allegories for DC and time Warners and how haphazardly and randomly the New 52 was forced on the creators. His whole mega arc was essentially sending the not too subtle message " that Superman the idea, the concept, the symbol and legend is unbreakable and will always find a way back to what makes him great. You may slap poorly designed armor, trash his iconic relationships and cast, try to transform him into something else for the sake of corporate whims and focus groups,but and the end of the day, you can't destroy him. He's bigger than all of us. He's Superman. At the end of the day, the Superman always claws his way back.

I'd agree that there's something to that for what the run became over time, but I don't think that was especially his initial impetus. He's said a couple times that he was offered Superman, turned it down, and then accepted when he was told it would be Action #1 and he could do pretty much whatever he wanted - he was just going to do those first six issues (what became #1-4 and 7-8) and leave, but he was asked to do the two part fill-in to give Morales time, and the larger story snowballed out of it. Makes you wonder if and how he would have settled Vyndktvx in his original version of the story; back when his Golden Age Superman story was conceived of as a direct two issue All-Star spinoff, it was going to be titled "Superman Versus Satan!", so presumably he would have given it some kind of conclusion in that space. Maybe he simply would have been Mxyzptlk after all.

Anyway, to my surprise, Finch's version of the crystal Fortress might be my favorite? That's probably in large part due to Jordie Bellaire, but the texture of it works for me better than it ever has; not quite ice, not quite crystal, not quite metal, something alien.

[manofsteel1979]

I honestly doubt Morrison would write Superman if he wasn't at least partially excited for the chance to reboot Superman and bring back elements that have been rid of, and DC can't force him because he's....welll...he's Morrison, and he is one of the more prolific and famous modern comic book writers. and if they would have tried forcing his hand they would have also lost their Batman writer.

Well, I don't think they "forced his hand",but he has said pretty much that even though he helped create him, the New 52 Superman was not quite his cup of tea, particularly the "corporate" vision of what DC was presenting as New 52 Superman. If he had his druthers , he prefers the "classic" Superman. That's not to say he regards that run he wrote as "phoning it in for the money", or that he isn't proud of the work he did. He used that run , as he did with ALL STAR, SUPERMAN BEYOND and every other time he wrote the character, to say something or comment about the legend, and I think to some extent, try and mitigate any damage DC might have done to Supes without his influence. So he took the character back to his golden age roots so at the very least, whatever changes DC would be mandating , he was still spiritually connected to Siegel and Shuster's original conception of the character.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad he said yes and they allowed him leeway for that first arc. Imagine if he had rejected the offer. Who would DC had given the job to? Hell it could have been Lobdell or... "shudder" Liefeld.

[SuperCrab]

Superman should get a Fortress on the moon

Batman beat him to it. I guess there's no reason that there can't be two superhero hangouts on the moon, though.

It does sort of enter the realm of how many places do these guys need, though?

I mean, Superman has the Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic, the new "SuperDad" Fortress in the Himalayan mountains, and of course the Justice League Satellite. Batman has the Batcave, the Justice League Satellite, and that base on the moon. I've got to think a lot of resources go into maintaining these things. It's admittedly easier for Superman because he's, well, Superman.

I also think from just the perspective of a "DC Universe", you wouldn't want to use up all the cool hangout ideas divided among just a few characters. I mean, though I didn't like the Lois and Clark comic much or the whole idea of SuperDad, and don't think the mountain Fortress is as cool as the arctic fortress, the mountain Fortress is cool in it's own right if it's not judged relative to the original. It would have been fine as a hangout for SuperDad in the "two Supermen" scenario where new52 Superman and Rebirth Superman co-exist, with the assumption that new52 Superman would get the Fortress he built, and was fine for SuperDad when they did co-exist and SuperDad was operating in secrecy. If the mountain Fortress falls, it opens up that location as a possibility for some other hero, after the dust settles and maybe in a different part of the Himalayas. And so it makes sense for it to fall if the new52 Superman and the Rebirth Superman are going to merge into a Reborn Superman.

I am not a fan of the Chinese Super-Man, but if he doesn't have a Fortress of Solitude yet, he could have one in the mountains of Tibet (Well, maybe not, whether Tibet is a part of China or not is a controversial subject) or something since the mountain fortress motif would be available.

Or maybe the Arrow would hang out in a Himalayan Fortress as a secondary thing to the Arrowcave- Ollie is rich, he owns a helicopter, he could get it built in secret. In some continuities, he was trained by the Raj Al-Ghul, is an acquaintance or adversary of the Raj Al-Ghul, or actually even has briefly *been* the Raj Al-Ghul. The League of Assassins has a mountain top fortress. Maybe Ollie would like one, too. Where's the League's mountain fortress supposed to be located at, geographically?

There's also the possibility of having an Indian superhero who is actually from India hang out up there.

I just think allotting like half a dozen hangouts to each of your two top guys would be counterproductive. It doesn't even open up many extra storytelling possibilities. It's like, okay, Superman needs to get away from Metropolis or regroup from his enemies or have some time to think amid high Kryptonian technology and to keep things at, and so on and so forth. If the Fortress of Solitude doesn't serve for any given reason, or has fallen out of his hands as part of a storyline, he's got the Justice League satellite, and vice-versa (Granted, one is a shared hangout). If both fall, he could probably go to Bruce or someone and see if he can use their hangout. I don't know what having two fortresses really opens up storytelling wise- and since most Rebirth Superman's biggest fans are really post-Crisis fans (or prior) who want traditional elements, they are going to mostly prefer the arctic hangout, and New52 Superman fans are only going to have had the arctic version with their guy (Okay, our guy. New52 Superman is awesome), so that's the one to keep.

I think if Reborn Superman is who we think he is- the combination of New52 Superman and Rebirth Superman with a new back story with elements of all of Superman lore in it- it makes sense to sort of wrap up the elements that don't make sense in that narrative like the extra fortress Rebirth Superman needed back when he wasn't the world's Superman. You get to what this Reborn Superman would have had if he had existed all along, which is parts of both Supermen, and then expand out from there as he lives his own life going forward. I doubt we'd see many anachronisms like an extra fortress if they really want to just sort of do a one Superman who most people think has always been one Superman kind of deal. Because there is no reason for this hypothetical Reborn Superman to have an extra fortress in a revised timeline.

Of course, we don't know who Reborn Superman will really be yet, so all that's just speculation.

[SuperCrab]

Editors really need to pay more attention to details like the color of Superman's boots across all his appearances. There is no excuse for getting that wrong if it's supposed to be a key story point and differentiator. Looks like the meaning of the blue boots is to tell us that Rebirth Superman is missing part of his essence, and then the boots will become red when that is restored. By just randomly having his show up in some early Justice League comics and now Batman comics in red boots, it messes up what they are doing. Sure, Superman could have two different sets of boots that are different colors, and that'd be fine- *if* the boots weren't supposed to be a key story point.

[TheCape]

I know that i'm assuming a lot, but i often feel that editors don't do their jobs nowadays

[Netherman14]

Batman beat him to it. I guess there's no reason that there can't be two superhero hangouts on the moon, though.

It does sort of enter the realm of how many places do these guys need, though?

I mean, Superman has the Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic, the new "SuperDad" Fortress in the Himalayan mountains, and of course the Justice League Satellite. Batman has the Batcave, the Justice League Satellite, and that base on the moon. I've got to think a lot of resources go into maintaining these things. It's admittedly easier for Superman because he's, well, Superman.

I also think from just the perspective of a "DC Universe", you wouldn't want to use up all the cool hangout ideas divided among just a few characters. I mean, though I didn't like the Lois and Clark comic much or the whole idea of SuperDad, and don't think the mountain Fortress is as cool as the arctic fortress, the mountain Fortress is cool in it's own right if it's not judged relative to the original. It would have been fine as a hangout for SuperDad in the "two Supermen" scenario where new52 Superman and Rebirth Superman co-exist, with the assumption that new52 Superman would get the Fortress he built, and was fine for SuperDad when they did co-exist and SuperDad was operating in secrecy. If the mountain Fortress falls, it opens up that location as a possibility for some other hero, after the dust settles and maybe in a different part of the Himalayas. And so it makes sense for it to fall if the new52 Superman and the Rebirth Superman are going to merge into a Reborn Superman.

I am not a fan of the Chinese Super-Man, but if he doesn't have a Fortress of Solitude yet, he could have one in the mountains of Tibet (Well, maybe not, whether Tibet is a part of China or not is a controversial subject) or something since the mountain fortress motif would be available.

Or maybe the Arrow would hang out in a Himalayan Fortress as a secondary thing to the Arrowcave- Ollie is rich, he owns a helicopter, he could get it built in secret. In some continuities, he was trained by the Raj Al-Ghul, is an acquaintance or adversary of the Raj Al-Ghul, or actually even has briefly *been* the Raj Al-Ghul. The League of Assassins has a mountain top fortress. Maybe Ollie would like one, too. Where's the League's mountain fortress supposed to be located at, geographically?

There's also the possibility of having an Indian superhero who is actually from India hang out up there.

I just think allotting like half a dozen hangouts to each of your two top guys would be counterproductive. It doesn't even open up many extra storytelling possibilities. It's like, okay, Superman needs to get away from Metropolis or regroup from his enemies or have some time to think amid high Kryptonian technology and to keep things at, and so on and so forth. If the Fortress of Solitude doesn't serve for any given reason, or has fallen out of his hands as part of a storyline, he's got the Justice League satellite, and vice-versa (Granted, one is a shared hangout). If both fall, he could probably go to Bruce or someone and see if he can use their hangout. I don't know what having two fortresses really opens up storytelling wise- and since most Rebirth Superman's biggest fans are really post-Crisis fans (or prior) who want traditional elements, they are going to mostly prefer the arctic hangout, and New52 Superman fans are only going to have had the arctic version with their guy (Okay, our guy. New52 Superman is awesome), so that's the one to keep.

I think if Reborn Superman is who we think he is- the combination of New52 Superman and Rebirth Superman with a new back story with elements of all of Superman lore in it- it makes sense to sort of wrap up the elements that don't make sense in that narrative like the extra fortress Rebirth Superman needed back when he wasn't the world's Superman. You get to what this Reborn Superman would have had if he had existed all along, which is parts of both Supermen, and then expand out from there as he lives his own life going forward. I doubt we'd see many anachronisms like an extra fortress if they really want to just sort of do a one Superman who most people think has always been one Superman kind of deal. Because there is no reason for this hypothetical Reborn Superman to have an extra fortress in a revised timeline.

Of course, we don't know who Reborn Superman will really be yet, so all that's just speculation.

Kenan could always appropiate Nuperman's Aztek base if it's deemed appropiate.