John Byrne Appreciation

[Mel Dyer]

Hi everyone.
Just remember that this IS labeled as an Appreciation Thread.
As such, comments should be positive.

Thank you for reminding me of that, Javier.

Honestly, ..I didn't consider it, when I was naming the thread, and I should have, considering the critical tone of my opening post. I think that my criticism of John Byrne, in that post, invited our fellow postors to chime in with criticism of their own. In fact, I know that it must have been very misleading to anyone, joining the conversation, and I have been entirely oblivious to that fact, ..until just now. Under the circumstances, I would like to apologize to all of you for my own critical contributions to this discussion and applaud the diplomatic nudge that our moderator has given us, here.

Thank you all for your lively and thought-provoking contributions to this thread, so far, ..and please carry on.

Thanks Donnafan . Yes I love his art generally, but his depiction of Diana was a bit off - something about the hair that looked like a cumbersome mass. I think it got a bit better as he went along. That said Garcia Lopez did some amazing covers during his tenure.

Did it surprise you that Hippolyta didn't encounter the Champion, when she traveled back to the 1940s? I mean...John went through all of the trouble of naming and dressing this guy, like a pulp fiction hero from the Golden Age, but left him out of the JSA stuff. I think it would have been great seeing the real Harold Campion - remember the one seducing Diana, was actually Hercules - fighting alongside Hippolyta and facing Dark Angel, for the first time.

Truthfully, I'd like to see more Champion...period, ..because there was such a refreshingly uncomplicated and decidedly juvenile energy that this character brought to the comic, and it was much too brief! He really was the best 'Mr. Wonder' that we've seen in the comic, so far - liked him infinitely better, than Warkiller or Hercules.

For me Byrne's run got better as it went along. The art improved some time around the Champion arc. I enjoyed Hippolyta as the Golden Age Wonder Woman, the introduction of Cassie and appreciated him attempting to use Donna and Artemis.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I'd completely forgotten about those GARCIA LOPEZ covers! They were phenomenal, ..especially the one with Diana standing beside the ocean. Breathtaking stuff. Thanks for bringing that back!

I am also a fan of your 'Wonderlad' avatar.

[brettc1]

Hi everyone.
Just remember that this IS labeled as an Appreciation Thread.
As such, comments should be positive.

Yes.

Well then...

We got the Invisible Jet back.

[Mel Dyer]

Yes.

Well then...

We got the Invisible Jet back.

We got the Invisible Tank first.

You may have forgotten that certain artifact-stealing, Stargate-inspired aliens were using the technology that would become the I-Jet, as a very cool, invisible tank, ..which was nirvana for me...because what male human doesn't dream of having his own invisible TANK?! Then, seeing Wonder Woman, Mike, Cassie and Champion charge off on a GREAT, little, pulpy adventure into the lost, subterranean world of the LANSINARIANS...

One of my favorite Wonder Woman stories of all time! The only thing missing was Etta Candy.

[brettc1]

We got the Invisible Tank first.

You may have forgotten that certain artifact-stealing, Stargate-inspired aliens were using the technology that would become the I-Jet, as a very cool, invisible tank, ..which was nirvana for me...because what male human doesn't dream of having his own invisible TANK?! Then, seeing Wonder Woman, Mike, Cassie and Champion charge off on a GREAT, little, pulpy adventure into the lost, subterranean world of the LANSINARIANS...

One of my favorite Wonder Woman stories of all time! The only thing missing was Etta Candy.

Yes, the Lansinarians.

I'll pass on the tank. Glad you enjoyed it.

[Mel Dyer]

Yes, the Lansinarians.

I'll pass on the tank. Glad you enjoyed it.

I read that story, again, and you were right: the I-Jet appears in #115, with the I-Tank construct (which should be parked in my driveway) appearing in #116.

[md62]

I never thought it was that bad. My only complaint was Diana became a supporting character in her own title. I liked her fighting Darkseid. I liked how Byrne brought back a Golden Age WW by making Hippolyta WW back in the 40's. I loved the JSA arc. I liked the attempt to "fix" Donna but felt he fell short with his idea.

[sakuyamons]

As much as I can criticize it, I like the Bryne run.

It introduced my favorite wonderverse character (Cassie), attempted to bond both Diana and Donna with that new backstory (which btw I like more than the Titans of Myth) and I think Golden Age Wondy was a good redemption arc for Polly after the character assesination she went under by Bill Loebs.

I think the Goddess of Myth think was...whatever though.

[Mel Dyer]

As much as I can criticize it, I like the Bryne run.

It introduced my favorite wonderverse character (Cassie), attempted to bond both Diana and Donna with that new backstory (which btw I like more than the Titans of Myth) and I think Golden Age Wondy was a good redemption arc for Polly after the character assesination she went under by Bill Loebs.

I think the Goddess of Myth think was...whatever though.

As I understand it, it would have been a redemption story for Champion, also, had Mr. Byrne been given more time.

It's a shame that we never got to see Hippolyta teaming up with the young Champion (the real Harold Campion) in the Golden Age. In an interview, Byrne said he wanted to spend more time with Hippolyta in the 40s, but didn't have time to work that in. Apparently, the whole point of introducing Champion, as an immortal villain (Herakles impersonating him), in present day was to bring him back, as a good guy (himself) in the Golden Age, fighting beside Hippolyta and the JSA.

[sakuyamons]

As I understand it, it would have been a redemption story for Champion, also, had Mr. Byrne been given more time.

It's a shame that we never got to see Hippolyta teaming up with the young Champion (the real Harold Campion) in the Golden Age. In an interview, Byrne said he wanted to spend more time with Hippolyta in the 40s, but didn't have time to work that in. Apparently, the whole point of introducing Champion, as an immortal villain (Herakles impersonating him), in present day was to bring him back, as a good guy (himself) in the Golden Age, fighting beside Hippolyta and the JSA.

Sometimes it looked to me like Bryne was making things as he went. Imo Time Travelling Hippolyta was interesting, because we tend to see her as the All Loving Mother or horrible interpretations like Amazons Attack, although she did it at first to make up her sins, it speaks a lot that she enjoyed it and that Diana was annoyed at it. Though this didn't happen on Bryne's run it started there.

I also liked that he bought Artemis back! I think that though Loebs created her, other writers handled her better and John was one of them imo, albeit his explanation of Donna being a clone of WW could get confusing, I appreciate the attempt, and the art got better after the first...20 issues?

Lots of people give Bryne slack for replacing Boston with Gataway City (it's justified but I might be biased because I like the Kapatelis just fine, but I like the Sandsmarks more and imo Cassie and Nessie are different characters that only had the same role) I don't think it was Bryne's fault that they weren't utilized after that. He made it clear that they were still in contact after she moved and they even did appareances from time to time, that the others didn't bother to remember is another thing on it's entirety.

[Aioros22]

I enjoyed some of the things you mention. The pulp bits are aomething I always enjoy in comics because a lot of what makes it work had its genesis in that genre. Because of that, like you, my absolute favorite bit is Champion. Not only his design but character. Now, I love me Hercules as well (the classic and the comic versions at large) so my issue was never the reveal. The reveal was ok. "Champion" could work as a descendant, an avatar or Hercules himself being a superhero in a modern twist as opposed to his traditional root.

What I found totally unecessary was killing all that with making Hercules (again) a rival the wrong way, particularly after what Perez did with that same version. It was a huge step back and killed something interesting with that plot.