Which books need a change of tone?

[SiegePerilous02]

The GL and JL teams mission statement pretty much overlap. Protecting Manhattan is no different than protecting Gotham and is more of s mission statement than the Teen Titans. Of the teams you mentioned the only one with a unique premise is Suicide Squad. You could switch the JL, JLA and GL teams and not notice much of a difference.

The Titans team has also been the most involved regarding the timeline changes and figuring out what was changed

The JL is all of DC's biggest names gathered in one team to handle the largest threats (not just cosmic either), while the GL corps is basically a police procedural in space. The Teen Titans is the next generation of sidekicks teaming up together, the Suicide Squad is supervillains being forced to do the government's dirty work, and then you have the Doom Patrol being the freaks dealing with situations too bizarre for the rest of the DCU.

All those teams have an easily understandable hook that the Titans don't have. The adult Titans is a group of 20-somethings (most of whom are just younger copies of the JL members) hanging out and fighting boring villains. Manhattan is nowhere near as interesting or colorful as Gotham City. They're in a weird spot that they've been stuck in since Wolfman ran out of gas, and there really is no way to get them out of it until the JL is permanently retired and they take their places, and there is no chance in Hell of that ever happening.

[Lightning Rider]

The Titans are in a weird spot and should be given a more distinctive mission, but I don't see what's so bad about showcasing personal problems and lifelong friendships.

[Godlike13]

All those teams have an easily understandable hook that the Titans don't have. The adult Titans is a group of 20-somethings (most of whom are just younger copies of the JL members) hanging out and fighting boring villains. Manhattan is nowhere near as interesting or colorful as Gotham City. They're in a weird spot that they've been stuck in since Wolfman ran out of gas, and there really is no way to get them out of it until the JL is permanently retired and they take their places, and there is no chance in Hell of that ever happening.

There is ways they can go with them, and JL doesn't need to go anywhere, they just don't try to go those ways with the Titans. Titans could be a premier Young Adult superhero team in the DCU, thats more contemporary and youthful than the JL, but instead they decided to go back to the 60's with the cast and yet again just play on people's nostalgia. With art that makes the book look like its something out of the 90's.

This is whats all just so incredibly frustrating about the Titans. They don't take advantage of what makes the Titans different (they're age), they keep the cast exclusive to mostly c-listers, they don't care about whether or not the team itself has a direction or means anything, and do nothing to make the team seem like a premier superhero team in their universe.

To bring this back to what this thread is about, tonally it think the Titans needs to get younger and more contemporary, and directionally they need to give it one that reflects that tone and what makes its different.

[JasonTodd428]

There is ways they can go with them, and JL doesn't need to go anywhere, they just don't. Titans could be about a premier Young Adult superhero team for DC, thats more more contemporary and youthful than the JL, but instead they decide to go back to the 60's and play on people's nostalgia, with art that make the book look like its something out of the 90's.

It's also art that was seen in the much maligned N52 Teen Titans run which really doesn't do it any favors either.

[Nick Miller]

Green Lantern needs a complete overhaul. Nearing ten years of the Johns style of writing and art.

Not that the current creators are making poor comics, i just need a new flavor.

[Caivu]

I'll offer a minority opinion and suggest 'Tec, unless it's improved since I jumped off. The first few arcs seemed less interested in telling interesting stories than in giving cool moments to the B-list Bat characters. I like those characters, but the emphasis on "Look how awesome I am" scenes lost my interest really quickly. Those scenes are great, as seasoning, but Tynion sledgehammers away at them to prop up weak storytelling. Made the book feel kinda fanboy-ish.

I don't know what you mean by this at all. The storytelling's just fine.

[protege]

There is ways they can go with them, and JL doesn't need to go anywhere, they just don't try to go those ways with the Titans. Titans could be a premier Young Adult superhero team in the DCU, thats more contemporary and youthful than the JL, but instead they decided to go back to the 60's with the cast and yet again just play on people's nostalgia. With art that makes the book look like its something out of the 90's.

This is whats all just so incredibly frustrating about the Titans. They don't take advantage of what makes the Titans different (they're age), they keep the cast exclusive to mostly c-listers, they don't care about whether or not the team itself has a direction or means anything, and do nothing to make the team seem like a premier superhero team in their universe.

To bring this back to what this thread is about, tonally it think the Titans needs to get younger and more contemporary, and directionally they need to give it one that reflects that tone and what makes its different.

Who do you consider a 20 something A- lister?

[Factor]

The GL and JL teams mission statement pretty much overlap. Protecting Manhattan is no different than protecting Gotham and is more of s mission statement than the Teen Titans. Of the teams you mentioned the only one with a unique premise is Suicide Squad. You could switch the JL, JLA and GL teams and not notice much of a difference.

The Titans team has also been the most involved regarding the timeline changes and figuring out what was changed

GL and JL overlap? Only in the sense that both can handle cosmic threats, but Justice League is usually about protecting Earth, while the Green Lantern Corps are a police force that protects most of the universe. Sure, there are Green Lanterns assigned to Earth, but guess what? They're Justice League members as well. If a cosmic menace is too big for the 2 GLs, they'd call the rest of the Justice League. The rest of the GLC only really handle Earth business when it can affect larger portions of the universe.
Protecting Manhatan is a terribly generic mission in comics. Titans shouldn't be relegated to one city when they could handle big threats like the Justice League, if only they had a clear goal. 'Tec works because it's about Gotham's heroes. They're mostly street level and Gotham is one of the most dangerous places in the DCU. A book about an Amazon, an Atlantean, a telepathic clarevoyant, a former Robin and global superspy shouldn't have them stuck in New York.
Teen Titans have the unique niche of being DC's only current team book. It's ok for kids to not have a mission figured out, the book is all about them developing themselves and dealing with more personal issues like Ra's. The older Titans should be way past that phase.

'Tec is Batman's boot camp, and Teen Titans have been brought together to stop and protect themselves from Ra's. And the GLC is an organized galactic police force, while the JL is about DC's premier heros teaming up to face threats to earth too big for them to individually handle.

Titans has nothing. Its doesn't deliver on the mission we assumed the team would have. While you say its involved regarding the timeline changes and figuring out what was changed, its not really done anything in regards to either, save for vague teases. Instead all the Titans actually do is deal with its members and past members personal problems. The Titans is not an actual superhero team. Its just a means to showcase Wally and former Teen Titans who can't carry solo, with Nightwing around in the background. Its done nothing to establish Titans as super team in the DCU. Its just been a group of older Teen Titans helping each other out.

That is supposedly what their function here is but what exactly have the Titans been doing in that regard though other than remembering that they were once a team? I've yet to see much in the way of story lines that are dealing with that subject so far. Even Wally's return is more about that he was lost in the Speed Force due to something Kadabra did then about the "timeline changes and figuring out what was changed". Seems to me in the coming months Superman, Batman and Flash are going to be involved in storylines that actually are dealing with the timeline changes more than Titans has been to date.

You guys probably said it better than I did LOL. I truly don't get why it's taking them so long to find a mission for this team.
They're full of connections to all corners of the DCU. They have insight into confidential intel through Nightwing, the future through Omen and a possible future/AU through Wally. They also have the advantage of having trained together since they were kids, something not even the Justice League had.
They should be more competent and they really should have an important mission. Dealing with the whole Rebirth mysteries could be one, but that would be short term.
I've said this before, but they should use all their knowlegde of DCU history, alternate timelines and futures to try and prevent big threats from happening. A more proactive team to counteract the Justice League's reactive m.o.
It would be simple, straight forward and would automatically give them a key role none of the other teams are fullfilling.

[Godlike13]

Who do you consider a 20 something A- lister?

Closest ones they have are probably Dick and Wally. There are others that are marketable too though.

[Agent Z]

Simon and Jessica spend all their time on Earth any way. The last two issues of their book was in Gotham.

Yeah the Titans help each other out while dealing with villains. Same as the Teen Titans. Also, at least all the Titans are in the same age group.

If Manhattan has a super villain problem it deserves protection as much as any place. I should point out that the Bat family have done global adventures too so they've evolved past street level

Finally, I don't get why the Titans get slapped with the nostalgia stick when TT and JL largely consist of the characters that have been a part of the group for decades. They even aged Gar and Raven down just to fit them into TT.

[bat39]

Green Arrow definitely needs a tonal shift and also a change in writing direction. Instead of simply stripping 'Arrow' for plot elements and easter eggs (the latest issue basically copied Malcolm Merlyn's backstory from 'Arrow' wholesale to the comics to create an even blander take on the archer), why not take what made 'Arrow' great in its first two seasons (and now the fifth) and throw in a more nuanced version of comic-book Oliver, as seen in the 2000's runs of Kevin Smith, Brad Meltzer and Judd Winick.

Agree on 'Titans' as well. The Rebirth story is going WAY too slow. The Lazarus Contract promises to be interesting but its ultimately a crossover event that focuses on the 'Teen Titans' concept as a whole and does little to validate the existence of 'Titans' as a series on its own. Personally, I wouldn't mind terribly if they cancel 'Titans' once the Rebirth story is sorted out, and have a unified 'Teen Titans' book which involves the first-generation Titans training and mentoring the new Titans - and have the occasional 'reunion' story for the OG Titans within that book. The hook of the unified Titans book could be training the next generation of superheroes - part X-men, part Justice League.

[Factor]

Simon and Jessica spend all their time on Earth any way. The last two issues of their book was in Gotham.

Yeah the Titans help each other out while dealing with villains. Same as the Teen Titans. Also, at least all the Titans are in the same age group.

If Manhattan has a super villain problem it deserves protection as much as any place. I should point out that the Bat family have done global adventures too so they've evolved past street level

Finally, I don't get why the Titans get slapped with the nostalgia stick when TT and JL largely consist of the characters that have been a part of the group for decades. They even aged Gar and Raven down just to fit them into TT.

Well, Simon and Jessica are Earth's Green Lanterns after all. They're supposed to stay on Earth LOL.

Every team books is about heroes helping each other out. That's not a strong mission statement. It works better for the TT because they're teens in training, which is what makes them unique in the DCU right now.

I never said Manhatan doesn't deserve protection. Since they're based there, I'd imagine the Titans would protect it even if they actually had another mission, but protecting Manhatan shouldn't be their only purpose. It's way too generic and doesn't provide potential to establish these Titans as essential characters in the DCU.

While the Justice League protects the world, Titans are stuck defending part of a single American city they actually have no deep connection to? Sorry, but that's kind of lame. Everyone knows the bat characters have gone global before, but they'll always be more associated with Gotham. It's their city and it makes sense Batman's boot camp would be based there. Titans defending Manhatan just feels random and unimaginative in comparison.

I do agree that Titans isn't the only team guilty of nostalgia. DC seems afraid of developing the main League further away from the same tired big seven formula and I also hate how they keep deaging Raven and Beast Boy. They really should be alongside the other Titans. But that's not my point. My point is that those other teams actually have strong or unique roles going for them while Titans so far is all about the nostalgia. They're together out of nostalgia for their time as friends and Teen Titans, not because they actually have a goal in mind. All it would take to improve things would be to give them a better mission.
I like the team and the characters, but currently all that makes them great are past achievements. It's the same problem Marvel always struggles with when they bring back the original New Mutants, they can never quite find a mission for them that doesn't seem like an afterthought once they brought the team together.

[SiegePerilous02]

Finally, I don't get why the Titans get slapped with the nostalgia stick when TT and JL largely consist of the characters that have been a part of the group for decades. They even aged Gar and Raven down just to fit them into TT.

The JL have proved to not be broke, so there is no need to fix them and experiment that much because they are successful. The basic idea of seeing all the a-list heroes teaming up doesn't lose it's novelty.

The first Titans came together as yeens and grew up together. They're stories were built on arcs which eventually had to end. The JL doesn't have that problem because they are more timeless characters.

It's possible to experiment with them further but not just by having them hang out and doing the stuff they were doing in the 80s.

[Agent Z]

The JL have proved to not be broke, so there is no need to fix them and experiment that much because they are successful. The basic idea of seeing all the a-list heroes teaming up doesn't lose it's novelty.

The first Titans came together as yeens and grew up together. They're stories were built on arcs which eventually had to end. The JL doesn't have that problem because they are more timeless characters.

It's possible to experiment with them further but not just by having them hang out and doing the stuff they were doing in the 80s.

See, I don't hear a whole lot of talk about JL. But I do see JLA and Titans getting discussed more. There are people interested in these books and where they are going. Don't think you can say the same for JL. You gravely underestimate how much apathy people can have for so called timeless characters. Titans is doing something different with these characters whereas no one seems to care abou Hitch's JL.

[Waterfall]

I see people have still the same whinings about Titans instead of trying to be patient. It's basically a "fix it" book and people in there have a goal: to figure out their own life while being a safety net to each other. If you don't like that, then move on to Justice League. I hear that's where you get your dose of mindless blockbuster. Titans don't care about being superstars, they just want to live.

Anyways

I want Flash to undo new 52 completely. Focus more on character development & sidecast. Give Barry a sidecast beyond Iris West. Stop rewriting classics like Blitz without giving it the same care or depth. Flash needs to get serious ASAP.