The Superman Family after Reborn

[SuperCrab]

Bruce doesn't drink.

Bruce has a more than half empty beer pint in his hands in Superman 2011-2016 #40, page 15. Take a look. I know at times in various incarnations the character has been shown being served fake cocktails by Alfred at parties he's thrown, but why would he have a fake mug of beer during an outing with the Justice League at a dive bar where no one recognized him? I think he was drinking the beer. It's not a gun, you know.

Besides, character traits like not drinking can be changed. Batman in general underwent a radical overhaul with The Dark Knight Returns in the early to mid 80s and then the Batman movie in the late 80s. The not drinking thing, if it's even a thing, seems like a holdover from the 50s or 60s Adam West Batman who was designed to be a cheesy icon for children, not the dark brooding R-rated Batman of more recent vintage. I don't see why the current version of Batman would be puritanical on the subject.

In any event, it also doesn't kill the idea of Bruce hanging out at a bar with Clark and Jim even if he doesn't drink. He can do what he does at the parties he's known for and hang out with them for the company. I like the idea of a bar as a hangout for the characters versus a restaurant or a coffee shop, because it's open all hours, you can hang out for more extended periods of time, and more interesting stuff can develop. It doesn't preclude the occasional drink to Big Belly Burger or whatever, though, of course.

That said, I want to see more Bibbo. Hell, I'd buy a Bibbo book. Do you know Bibbo Bibbowski? He's the one and only bartender of any importance in the Superman mythos.

Bibbo would be alright for the part. I find him a little cheesy, but not horribly cheesy.

[Flash Gordon]

Batman doesn't drink. It's not about being cheesy or not being cheesy, it's that his body has to be at peak shape all the time.

[Ascended]

Post-Reborn, Im expecting to see Lana retain her powers, Conner to return in some capacity, and for the bonds with Kara to be built back up. Steel is, unfortunately, most likely going to remain on the outskirts of the franchise as no one really seems to have a clear purpose and role for him to fill. Superman is super intelligent again, which removes the need for a science adviser, and DC seems intent on neglecting the best addition to the mythos from the last twenty-plus years.

And then there's Power Girl, who might be returning to the main continuity with the rest of the JSA. I havent read the earth-2 stuff since shortly after Robinson left so I have no idea what is happening there, beyond a vague knowledge that the E-2 people blew up their earth or something and colonized a new planet, and the Rebirth Special told us that the JSA would be back on clutter earth (which sucks, I think, but whatevs). All I know is that when the JSA return to clutter earth, Karen Starr is almost certainly going to be there with them in some capacity.

And I think there might be some merit to the idea of Action becoming a Super-team title at some point after Reborn. Its worked for Detective and it would allow Tomasi to really focus on Clark, and since Superman is the better selling title I can see DC wanting to give him more freedom, and turning Action into a team book might be the shot in the arm it needs. Could be a win/win.

So that gives us what, Superman, Superboy, Conner, Superwoman, Supergirl, Steel, and possibly Power Girl. That's a pretty rock solid family and team roster.

The big question, I think, is if Action does get the team treatment, what shape will that take? You can't have half a dozen Kryptonians beating up the Royal Flush Gang. The only avenue I can see a team like that going in is big cosmic, Morrison/Hickman style stuff. Like Marvel's Ultimates or the Superman Squad.

[Factor]

Who do you think it will all consist of? Do you think Jurgens' tease that Action might turn into a Detective Comics-like book has legs? You think they're going to keep it fairly small, or try and make it as big as Batman's (which they could easily do if so desired)? Personally, I'm rather getting the feeling they want to go big here.

Here's whose already around:
Superman
Lois Lane
Superboy (Jon)
Supergirl (Kara)
Steel
Natasha Irons
Traci Thirteen
Superwoman (Lana)
Krypto

Here's characters who aren't around at the moment but could fit if and when they return:
Conner Kent (Kon-El)
Mae Kent (Matrix)
Eradicator - Technically he's around but he's still antagonistic at the moment
The Guardian (Jim Harper)

And of course the SCU:
Maggie Sawyer
"Terrible" Dan Turpin

That's a sizeable cast, but I think 'Tec proves it can work for a dedicated title. Turn Action Comics into the family title, keep Superman as is and bring back MOS or Adventures as a second Supes solo title.

I really want Action as a team book. Have Superdad, Lana and Steel as the mentors to Natasha, Traci 13 and Kon-El, plus reintroduce the Guardian. Maggie Sawyer should be a constant supporting character just like Gordon in the Batbooks and Lex should also be around as a sometimes ally but mostly antagonist/wildcard.
Since Action wouldn't be a Superman solo anymore, I think he could use a monthly similar to All-Star Batman to focus on classic villains and smaller arcs. I would get someone like Max Landis to write it.
Supergirl should keep her solo and guest star in the other books from time to time. I would love if she joined the JLA in the future as well.
Super Sons and the Superman book are doing great. I wouldn't change much except make the whole Superdad/Nuperman thing less confusing. The way they're building Jon's character is incredible, thought.
New Super-Man seems like a fan favorite, so I think he's worth keeping. He could join the Action team, but it would be nice for DC to try to build his fanbase through guest appearances and/or big roles in future events. Heck, I'd love if he headlined a Global Guardians relaunch, but I'm probably alone in that.

[DragonPiece]

Action as a team book would be interesting. And honestly, if it means Tomasi can do the major developments with superman that's even more fine by me.

[Superlad93]

Who do you think it will all consist of? Do you think Jurgens' tease that Action might turn into a Detective Comics-like book has legs?

I'd very much like to see Action Comics turned into something a little more like Detective. However, I'd also like a large helping of a Gotham Central vibe to it. The idea that it's sort of an anthology book that's largely just about the city of Metropolis, Superman, and it's other super and ordinary heroes.

The book would actually really suit a Superman world nut like Jurgens. It would almost demand the writer do more than just have Superman out punching a thing. This would demand that you do a large amount of world building and upkeep. There's only a few non known Superman world nuts that I would trust this sort of thing to.

I'd also love to see the return of the other stars of Action like Congo Gorilla for back ups.

I don't see Kon-El joining this book because his star is largely hitched to YJ these days. I actually strongly believe that DC is planing to bring back the Young Justice book, and place Kon there. I mean, you don't just ignore the fact that a cartoon show got brought back from the dead because of fan power. You keep pushing that name in other outlets, and you get as close to the show's feel as possible in the comics so the transition isn't too bad. I could even see the Jackson from TT (Aqualad) being taken in by Tim, Kon, Bart, and Cassie as part of the resurrected YJ. This is where I see Kon spending most of his time.

Who knows what will happen to New Super-Man and Superwoman. It wouldn't be too hard too fold Lana over as a regular in Action along with Steel because they both live in Metropolis, but Kenan's whole world is completely outside of that. Kenan has build a whole, and characters all his own, and that's not something you just transplant. I think his book being lost would be a far greater blow.

Other than that, they should probably just focus on characters like Superman, Jimmy, Lois, Lex, Parry, Lee, Lana, John, Dan, Maggie, Pete (hopfully), Ulysses, and have semi-regulars who have their own books like Jon, Kara, and Kon.

Change up the flow and focus of the story regularly (switching between bombastic, wacky, gritty, thriller, cerebral, and so on). Also back-ups are basically a must.

And maybe if just Superwoman folds over we can get a specialty Superman book that's akin to All Star Batman. That, or a slot for regular batch of minis/maxis.

I'd be down for something like this.

[stephens2177]

I'm still uneasy with that. I'd stick with the 17ish age. I want him to be in the same age bracket with his peers Tim, Cassie, and Bart. Now if there pre flashpoint history is returned then maybe I'd feel better about it, but I don't know if it's going to happen like that. Still waiting to see what happens with Wally and the rest of the Titans on that regard. He can still be the cocky teenage superhero but a seasoned one in covert ops.

Well you want Kon to be that exact.kid from that water.tower he was sitting on,oh and including a big helping of the YJ superboy.i on the other hand want that same thing,just with a good portion of kesel and lobdell included,but I want a new fresh Kon who is a mix of everything right from the past but also new things that still feel like kon

I want Kon to be between 18 and 19,that's 1 year older than what you want,and would give him a lil time after being on that water tower to grow and be in a new place in his life

[Atomic Man]

Bruce has a more than half empty beer pint in his hands in Superman 2011-2016 #40, page 15. Take a look. I know at times in various incarnations the character has been shown being served fake cocktails by Alfred at parties he's thrown, but why would he have a fake mug of beer during an outing with the Justice League at a dive bar where no one recognized him? I think he was drinking the beer. It's not a gun, you know.

Besides, character traits like not drinking can be changed. Batman in general underwent a radical overhaul with The Dark Knight Returns in the early to mid 80s and then the Batman movie in the late 80s. The not drinking thing, if it's even a thing, seems like a holdover from the 50s or 60s Adam West Batman who was designed to be a cheesy icon for children, not the dark brooding R-rated Batman of more recent vintage. I don't see why the current version of Batman would be puritanical on the subject.

In any event, it also doesn't kill the idea of Bruce hanging out at a bar with Clark and Jim even if he doesn't drink. He can do what he does at the parties he's known for and hang out with them for the company. I like the idea of a bar as a hangout for the characters versus a restaurant or a coffee shop, because it's open all hours, you can hang out for more extended periods of time, and more interesting stuff can develop. It doesn't preclude the occasional drink to Big Belly Burger or whatever, though, of course.



Bibbo would be alright for the part. I find him a little cheesy, but not horribly cheesy.

Bruce not drinking probably had its origins in the 40s-50s when comics were still a huge influence on kids. I'm saying Bruce doesn't drink because writers like Denny O'Neil, Alan Grant, and others have established that it's not something he does. Not even for appearances. Bruce does nothing that might affect his edge and constant awareness. I like what Paul Dini (and/or Morrison) said about Bruce's superpower: he's constantly on, constantly analyzing a room and a situation. He may let his guard down occasionally, but it sure as hell isn't in public and in a place like a bar. That means he doesn't drink, not even a little. I'm not saying he can't hold his liquor, either. I'm saying it's just not something he does because it's a hindrance to who and what The Batman is.

Bibbo is not cheesy, IMO. Sentimental, yes, but not cheesy.

[13th Superman]

Well you want Kon to be that exact.kid from that water.tower he was sitting on,oh and including a big helping of the YJ superboy.i on the other hand want that same thing,just with a good portion of kesel and lobdell included,but I want a new fresh Kon who is a mix of everything right from the past but also new things that still feel like kon

I want Kon to be between 18 and 19,that's 1 year older than what you want,and would give him a lil time after being on that water tower to grow and be in a new place in his life

The thing is if it's a fresh new Kon, I want to give him time grow. If he comes back, he may come back as a new person, blank slate. If that's the case then I at least want something of a childhood. Automatically being 18-19 takes that away. Young Justice Kon had time to grow so I like that. If this is the same guy from pre flashpoint than yeah that age is fine. He's growing up. There was history. The story continues. I'm perfectly fine with that.

[SuperCrab]

The problem with Action being a team book with other small-time (Mostly child or teen) superheroes, apart from the fact that I don't want to read it, is that the Superman title under Tomasi hasn't been dealing with the typical Superman elements like the Daily Planet and that cast and series of settings at all. Action is doing all the stories that involve the traditional cast and setup, tell the meta story, and establish and advance the continuity. Superman as a title wildly veers from Little House on the Parie (i.e. The Adventures of Jon) to dinosaurs and alternate universes and whatever (I actually like alternate universes, but bare with me).

If you change Action into what people are talking about, and Superman stays as-is, where do people who want to see Clark and Jimmy working a story and Superman saving the day, and continuity between tales with meta arcs and intrigue go? Where do people find out what's going on with that stuff?

I mean, Jurgens may not be doing a super (No pun intended) job of it, but he's the only one even trying to tell Superman stories with setups that someone from basically most of the last 80 years would recognize as the iconic Superman setting and characters. He's also the only one really dealing with the type of on-going storylines that keep people reading long-term: Who is Clark Kent? Who is Oz? Superman and Luthor's relationship. Lois Lane at the office investigating things. The fallout of the N52 LL dying. The old apartments. Perry, Jimmy, Steve Lombardi, etc.. That African-American reporter with the nice hair that wants to take Lois out to lunch. The watercooler and the work stuff. Granted, they are not showing enough Jimmy and Perry, and Kat Grant should be transferred back, but you all know what I mean.

Jurgens may or may not be doing the best job of writing that type of book, but someone needs to be doing it, and there needs to be at least one title for them to work with.

People complained that they didn't do enough of that kind of thing in the N52, but it was 10x more than they are doing now, and if they send Action Comics off on a weird jag and keep Superman as a title where it has been in Rebirth thematically, it'll be virtually nothing.

I mean, people complained about wanting Post-Crisis Superman back, but when they said that, didn't they also mean the traditional Daily Planet setup and cast and Clark Kent on the beat? Or is it acceptable just to imply that the main character is that Superman in a literal sense, but have him be in a dramatically different setting with a different cast and different themes? Seems weird. New52 Superman was actually a lot more traditional than what we are seeing now, Truth arc aside- the characters were in their iconic roles in their iconic settings, and elements and characters like the Daily Star and Morgan Edge were brought back from the Pre-Crisis Earth 2 original Superman days. It was just modernized a bit and the characters restarted at younger ages to do it all again. Rebirth is nothing like that.

[SuperCrab]

Btw, just as an aside, the cover for the issue of Action Comics five days from now is awesome. I am not saying like artistically necessarily, I just get a kick out of seeing Superman and Clark Kent have a full on fight on the cover. I also liked the one a few months ago where Superman saves Clark Kent in the air by grabbing his leg. I'm glad someone thought to do those whole they are temporarily separate characters. If I were browsing a comic book store and wasn't necesaarily a Superman buyer, but knew and appreciated Superman from movies or the good old days or whatever, those would certainly grab my attention and maybe generate a buy! Superman and Clark Kent as two different people- wild.

[Superlad93]

The problem with Action being a team book with other small-time (Mostly child or teen) superheroes, apart from the fact that I don't want to read it, is that the Superman title under Tomasi hasn't been dealing with the typical Superman elements like the Daily Planet and that cast and series of settings at all. Action is doing all the stories that involve the traditional cast and setup, tell the meta story, and establish and advance the continuity.

I'm not at all for Action becoming a team book. That would be a mistake. An anthology that focused on Superman/Clark, Lois, Jimmy, Lex, Parry, Maggie, Dan, Lana, John Henry, Lee (the fire fighter), and the world building of the city of Metropolis. The guest spots would be by Kara, Jon, and Kon because they'd all have books of their own.

I imagine it switching between a Gotham Central vibe (google it. It's a great comic) and bombastic action.

[FishyZombie]

Btw, just as an aside, the cover for the issue of Action Comics five days from now is awesome. I am not saying like artistically necessarily, I just get a kick out of seeing Superman and Clark Kent have a full on fight on the cover. I also liked the one a few months ago where Superman saves Clark Kent in the air by grabbing his leg. I'm glad someone thought to do those whole they are temporarily separate characters. If I were browsing a comic book store and wasn't necesaarily a Superman buyer, but knew and appreciated Superman from movies or the good old days or whatever, those would certainly grab my attention and maybe generate a buy! Superman and Clark Kent as two different people- wild.

yeah man, totally getting a Superman III vibe.

[Sacred Knight]

For the record I'm only for Action becoming a team book if Superman gets another solo so he still has two. Or make the new title the family book and leave Action as is. Either or, no big deal which is which.

[Netherman14]

I like when the focus is on Superman and Clark Kent, when they are the same person. Then the extended cast is whomever he is dating, his friends and co-workers from the Daily Planet, etc.. I don't like all these child and teenage superheroes and would prefer that if they have to be around, they be put in their own titles where I don't have to read about them just to get my Superman fix.

So, I'd say I only like a "family" focus if they mean Daily Planet characters like Jimmy Olson, Perry White, Kat Grant (I realize she jsn't currently working there), Lois Lane, etc.. In select situations, you go to people like Lana Lang (non-superhero edition, or the superhero but hanging out in her human guise), Maggir Sawyer, that African-American firefighter friend of New52 Superman, Dr. Veritas, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc.. I feel like Jim Olson is barely in the comics anymore.

I could see expanding it to like having the Planet staff or the Justice League hang out at a bar after work and the bartender becoming a character, plus a Norm-like bar patron (Don't have these people turn out to be bad guys, please). I liked the scene right before Truth where Clark has lost his powers for a day due to superflaring and was out drinking with his JL friends in their human guises- that could be a regular thing they do- minus the drunken powerless Clark (Although that was hilarious). Could work for the Planet staff, too, depending on where you want the focus to be.

Acfually, what if Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Jim Olson all start drinking together, and Jim knws Clark is Superman, but not thst Bruce is Batman, so Clark has to cover up for Bruce? That could be fun.

But again, the superhero kids and teens are too much already for mainline Superman titles.

Superwoman has been good as a separate book. Were that to fold due to poor sales, I could see slotting her in a Justice League type teamup book (She and Steel could be the first two members- maybe new52 Superman as well, he says sneakily ), but not Action or Superman.

And, of course, they could always give new52 Superman his own book! I know, I know... My favorite character, though.

Superman Unchained needs to be brought back, given to Greg Pak and revamped into an actual Nu52 Superman title. not a Superdad in Post-Flashpoint attire story.