What Superman Comics "Runs" Do You Think I'd Like? Criteria In the Thread.

[Ascended]

I don't want to launch an argument here, but I will say that I'm continually fascinated by the amount of people who have used the few years of Superman's time as a "social crusader" to do a retcon of who and what the character is. In the same way those stories aren't a valid defense for making Superman a killer, they aren't a valid argument that "Superman was supposed to always be ______________."

As the works of Les Daniels shows (for Superman and The Batman), Siegel and Shuster weren't intent on making any kind of political statement when they created Superman. They wanted to create a character who could do what the common man couldn't in 1938, stand up to gangsters and other criminals, including those in public office. That was the MO of many characters of the era, yet it's a small period in retrospect.

I'm not saying it's invalid at all. I'd love to see more stories of Superman involved in non-standard superhero/sci-fi adventures. JMS had the right idea by dealing with contemporary issues in Grounded, but the execution was pretty awful overall.

The relevance of the "social crusader" is an interesting debate, really.

Ultimately, I guess its just personal interpretation. How much you like the concept dictates how important you think it is. And there's enough "evidence" to support any position so you're at least a little bit viable no matter what.

And no, the creators weren't trying to make a political statement, they were two poor city kids just writing wish fulfillment. But their statements still had a political impact. "Wish fulfillment" is a pretty broad term and could have applied to any number of situations and topics. But they started with social, and therefore political, statements. And no, it didn't last more than what, a couple years or so (memory is rusty)? Its not even a blip on the radar of the character's overall history. Nor is it even his most successful era (that being parts of the Silver Age). Yet it's the approach that gave birth to a genre that has survived almost a century. And Superman is still going strong. So it had to have something going for it. You might even argue that its the most "pure" form of Superman; before he became a corporate entity (and corporate interference with the property is legendary from what I hear). And many of the greatest hits of comics (not just Superman, but the industry itself) are political (Watchmen, DKR, etc). You can point to the popularity of Morrison's opening Action arc, and DC's constant return to it over 5 years, as proof that the social crusader still works today. And you can point to Truth and say "no it doesnt."

Me, I adore the social crusader. It is, in my own mind, a critical part of Superman; part of his core DNA. And I think returning to that mentality (not wholesale, but spiritually) is possibly what Superman needs to re-connect with the audience and re-gain what he's lost. And I have my reasons, backed by several years of studying business (but not quite graduated yet so take that for what its worth), to show that I've got a point. But I know that this is just me justifying my opinion and wanting to see it implemented for personal gratification. The fact that it might actually work is almost happenstance.

[Atomic Man]

The relevance of the "social crusader" is an interesting debate, really.

Ultimately, I guess its just personal interpretation. How much you like the concept dictates how important you think it is. And there's enough "evidence" to support any position so you're at least a little bit viable no matter what.

And no, the creators weren't trying to make a political statement, they were two poor city kids just writing wish fulfillment. But their statements still had a political impact. "Wish fulfillment" is a pretty broad term and could have applied to any number of situations and topics. But they started with social, and therefore political, statements. And no, it didn't last more than what, a couple years or so (memory is rusty)? Its not even a blip on the radar of the character's overall history. Nor is it even his most successful era (that being parts of the Silver Age). Yet it's the approach that gave birth to a genre that has survived almost a century. And Superman is still going strong. So it had to have something going for it. You might even argue that its the most "pure" form of Superman; before he became a corporate entity (and corporate interference with the property is legendary from what I hear). And many of the greatest hits of comics (not just Superman, but the industry itself) are political (Watchmen, DKR, etc). You can point to the popularity of Morrison's opening Action arc, and DC's constant return to it over 5 years, as proof that the social crusader still works today. And you can point to Truth and say "no it doesnt."

Me, I adore the social crusader. It is, in my own mind, a critical part of Superman; part of his core DNA. And I think returning to that mentality (not wholesale, but spiritually) is possibly what Superman needs to re-connect with the audience and re-gain what he's lost. And I have my reasons, backed by several years of studying business (but not quite graduated yet so take that for what its worth), to show that I've got a point. But I know that this is just me justifying my opinion and wanting to see it implemented for personal gratification. The fact that it might actually work is almost happenstance.

I agree. I'd love to see Superman deal with issues like xenophobia, hate, and intolerance, but how those are addressed is key to success. IMO, the wrong way to do it is what Nick Spencer has been doing with Cap and FalCap over at Marvel. Heavy-handed proselytizing from any side has no place in comic books. Addressing the ethical issues that are so often ignored in political debates and arguments is something that should be dealt with. Like a lot of kids in the 80s, I got a lot of "moral instruction" from comic books and comic book characters, and so I'd love to see more of that in DC comics that are, FINALLY, appropriate for kids to read.

I think the win-win scenario for all fans would be to use multiple Superman titles to highlight all that can be done with the character. Superman is more family and DP based, Action is superhero/sci-fi adventure, and maybe a new title (Man of Steel?) can deal with the street-level stuff like we saw in the post-COIE books with "Crisis At Hand" and the Bloodsport stories.

[Ascended]

I agree. I'd love to see Superman deal with issues like xenophobia, hate, and intolerance, but how those are addressed is key to success. IMO, the wrong way to do it is what Nick Spencer has been doing with Cap and FalCap over at Marvel. Heavy-handed proselytizing from any side has no place in comic books. Addressing the ethical issues that are so often ignored in political debates and arguments is something that should be dealt with. Like a lot of kids in the 80s, I got a lot of "moral instruction" from comic books and comic book characters, and so I'd love to see more of that in DC comics that are, FINALLY, appropriate for kids to read.

I think the win-win scenario for all fans would be to use multiple Superman titles to highlight all that can be done with the character. Superman is more family and DP based, Action is superhero/sci-fi adventure, and maybe a new title (Man of Steel?) can deal with the street-level stuff like we saw in the post-COIE books with "Crisis At Hand" and the Bloodsport stories.

When dealing with how to do a real life topic and do it right, I point to Peter David's Supergirl 23. A white supremacist tries to hold a rally at a college. The students aren't thrilled. Cops ask Supergirl to keep the douchebag alive. Steel shows up to stand with the protesters. The heroes have a lively debate. I dont know if Ive read another mainstream comic that tackled such a delicate issue so deftly.

I recall reading in the letter pages later on, a college professor used that issue in his class, which I thought was cool.

Proxies work too, and in Superman's case they're the easiest/safest to use.

Myself, I think this is what Clark Kent is for. Superman tackles the big, shiny, loud problems; the super villains and the extinction level events and the young girls about to jump off buildings. And Clark Kent tackles the more insidious, dangerous threats like corruption, human trafficking, poverty, education, etc. Clark's a detailed oriented guy, he's going to get both sides of a story, so you can be impartial in that. This makes Clark essential to the mythos again, as his work is just as important as Superman's to Clark's long-term goals. And you get to develop Clark along the way. The nice thing about Clark is that he gets to have opinions, questions, and doubts that Superman can't, so he can really wrestle with a topic, see it from different angles.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

2. Superman as a conservative icon who hates sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

Well, Superman never acted like that, save for like a few instances in the 1950s (when everyone was acting like that), so.....

[Atomic Man]

Well, Superman never acted like that, save for like a few instances in the 1950s (when everyone was acting like that), so.....

I told him the same thing! To paraphrase Fulton Sheen: "There are not a hundred people in the world who hate Superman, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive Superman to be."

[TheCape]

The thing about Superman is that, well, he is a legend, he is an icon that is known in the whole world, even more than Batman (even if Bruce sells more than him), in consequence people have ridiculous expectatives about him, he is sold as a 34 karot of gold when he is a 24 karot of gold (Batma is sell as a 35 karot of gold that actually is a 23 karot of gold) and as the biggest guy on the block he is the one that recieve more critics and hate, having the fame of being the "first superheroe" (he is more like the father of the modern concept to be honest) doesn't help matters. He is a victim of his own sucess.
Similar thing happens to love interest, MJ and Lois Lane are by far the most criticized females of boths Superman and Spider-Man franchises.

[Kuwagaton]

In any case, I checked comixology, and while different from Casey a lot of the Adventures of Superman I love are there.

#424, 425, 427-430, and 432-435 is the down to earth Superman from Wolfman. 459-463, 466, 468, 469, 473-475 are the more stand alone parts from early Jurgens. Thibert was such a good inker. 487 was one of several neat Christmas issues. 494 was a cool adventure with Kismet, the first iirc. 558-561 was the silver age chunk of the Dominus Effect.