Luffy and Natsu vs Meliodas and Escanor

[Morning]

Estarossa countered his own attacks back at him and he was like "Oh, I felt pain. That's only to be expected with my own attacks," it didn't actually damage him all that much that we can discern.

To be fair, that's how it is every time a reasonably strong character gets hit with a full counter. Of all the gazillion times we've seen it, only the nameless small fry actually get more than a little hurt when they eat their own attacks. I don't know why that is; but it is.

If Meliodas takes on Natsu, which he should be capable of doing with his recent powerup barring Natsu having gotten way stronger over the years

Depends when you stopped reading. Natsu has, of course, gotten several explicit powerups over the past few years. His most recent one is of a similar multiplier to Luffy's timeskip. For example, Blue Note is a legit teambreaker to Natsu before the first FT timeskip. Blue Note is capable of holding his own against Gildarts at the time, who Natsu can barely even make take a step back (with Natsu going all out and Gildarts holding back just to test him).

After the first timeskip, Natsu is able to push Gildarts back a considerable distance with just one move.

After the second timeskip, Natsu one-shots Blue Note while carrying a teammate and making a joke. And this is just his base form. He also has several modes that dramatically amp his stats and newly unlocked demon powers which allowed him to blitz someone who had just blitzed his base form. So... yeah.

As for the fight, I see it splitting up with Luffy-Meliodas/Natsu-Escanor at the bell, simple because Luffy and Mel won't want to be standing anywhere near the other two.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Let's just put this to bed. Here is the page after he "destroyed the town." As you can see, there is still more town. All he did was take out a chunk of it. http://imgur.com/a/4h4Dc

Still a bigger strength feat that basically anybody in

And "raising his arm" was an attack. True, it was a casual attack, but an attack nonetheless. It's not like every time he waves hello it does several blocks of collateral damage. Most high end FT characters are on the city-busting side of things now. Some take out mountains. Some take out islands. One of them recently rearranged a country. The ease of Galan's feat is impressive, but the actual damage done isn't anything to write home about.

We have seen people throw out magic that cover cities, Brandish is able to shrink an island and Eileen used reality altering magic to rearrange a country. None of that equates to them being able to blow up said things. The only ones that might be able to bust mountains in the series so far are the dragons we not explicitly seen any of them do. We don't even know if Acnologia would've blow up Tenrou island since it was teleported away before his attack connected.

Characters that actually blow up entire cities aren't that prevalent in Fairy Tail. That said, Natsu can probably do it.

The translation I read actually says "jumping." http://imgur.com/a/5T6Yy And, again, we know that jumping is his preferred means of long-distance travel.

Either way, one instant he's in one place. The next he's several miles away. Whether he ran or leapt that is faster than anybody in Fairy Tail.

Several characters in NnT are described as being mountain sized, but none actually are that I can recall. The war god actually is. His head is in the clouds. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Both Albion reach above the clouds, even the short one.

He didn't react to it at all. He tanked it.

He used Full Counter to send it back at Monspeet and Derieri. That's him reacting to it.

Based on what? What did Estarossa ever actually do, feat-wise? He bloodied Escanor's face with punches, but for all we know Galan or Fraudrin could have done the same. And he managed to not die against Escanor for a while, thanks mainly to his healing factor and full counter. What great feats does he have that makes Escanor blitzing him impressive? What would stop, say, Natsu, from slaughtering him as easily as 11:30 Escanor did?

Making Escanor bleed by punching him is a feat. We have plenty of feats to give us a solid idea of Galan's strength and then we have Escanor completely tanking Galan's biggest attack.

We can compare that to Natsu who's been bothered or injured by smaller attacks than what Galan hit Escanor, not to mention that most of the people doing any of that have way fewer feats than Galan.

Going back to Estarossa, his official strength level is higher than Galan's entire power level, even when he's boosted. So yeah, everything points to Estarossa being significantly stronger than Galan.

[Morning]

We have seen people throw out magic that cover cities, Brandish is able to shrink an island and Eileen used reality altering magic to rearrange a country. None of that equates to them being able to blow up said things.

So Brandish being able to shrink an island to the point where she could literally step on it doesn't equate her being an island buster? That's really the ground you want to stake out here?

And its true, we don't see a lot of environment destruction in FT compared to NnT. But Dragons have produced explosions off in the distance that are larger than mountains. Guys like Ajeel and Jellal have launched attacks that, by size, would easily swallow towns if indeed towns were in the way. And the mountain-sized giant that Natsu punched didn't just fall over: he exploded from the top down. And if you put a town in front of some of his recent roars, it would be gone, based on scale.

Either way, one instant he's in one place. The next he's several miles away. Whether he ran or leapt that is faster than anybody in Fairy Tail.

It's a reflex feat that puts him somewhat higher than Meliodas (at the time) and a super jump. Lots of super strong characters can super jump and cover miles much faster than they can actually run or fight. That's why the feat would have been more meaningful if he'd actually run.

Both Albion reach above the clouds, even the short one.

Yeah, you're right.

He used Full Counter to send it back at Monspeet and Derieri. That's him reacting to it.

Nope. That was the dragon head fire attack that he Full Countered. The one we saw moving so quickly previously was the bird fire attack. Meliodas did have one bird one shot at him at close range previously (when he was fighting the commandments at once), but it just blew up when it hit him without him reacting at all.

Making Escanor bleed by punching him is a feat. We have plenty of feats to give us a solid idea of Galan's strength and then we have Escanor completely tanking Galan's biggest attack.

Galan never punched Escanor in the face. It might reasonably be easier to draw blood from Escanor's face than from the middle of his tree trunk-sized arm. And maybe if Estarossa had swung a blade as hard as he could at Escanor's arm, he would have done more damage than Galan managed. Who knows? There is literally no objective measuring stick, given Estarossa's few other showings.

We can compare that to Natsu who's been bothered or injured by smaller attacks than what Galan hit Escanor

I mean, no one is questioning that Escanor is the more durable of the two.

Going back to Estarossa, his official strength level is higher than Galan's entire power level

Source? I may very well be wrong, but I don't remember his power level being stated in the manga. If it's in an official handbook... those don't meet the standard for evidence around here, as far as I know.

[Dark Soul # 7]

So Brandish being able to shrink an island to the point where she could literally step on it doesn't equate her being an island buster? That's really the ground you want to stake out here?

Yup. As far as I know to officially be a buster of something you have to have destroyed that something under your own power.

Brandish is an island shrinker, nobody is denying that. But she's not shown that she's an island buster.

And its true, we don't see a lot of environment destruction in FT compared to NnT. But Dragons have produced explosions off in the distance that are larger than mountains.

If we're gonna be nit-picking, only dragon has done that.

Guys like Ajeel and Jellal have launched attacks that, by size, would easily swallow towns if indeed towns were in the way.

In Ajeel's case I again say that he hasn't displayed any town busting attacks. He can probably cover a town in sand, but that's not the same as busting it. As for Jellal, yeah he might be able to destroy a town.

And the mountain-sized giant that Natsu punched didn't just fall over: he exploded from the top down. And if you put a town in front of some of his recent roars, it would be gone, based on scale.

I did say that Natsu probably can do it. He has big enough attacks with proven destructive capability.

I'm not calling him a mountain buster though. Mainly because the War God has no durability feats beyond taking one of Natsu's regular attacks to the face. It's still an impressive feat of destruction, just not mountain busting if you ask me.

It's a reflex feat that puts him somewhat higher than Meliodas (at the time) and a super jump. Lots of super strong characters can super jump and cover miles much faster than they can actually run or fight. That's why the feat would have been more meaningful if he'd actually run.

And again, it's still more impressive than basically any Fairy Tail speed feat.

Nope. That was the dragon head fire attack that he Full Countered. The one we saw moving so quickly previously was the bird fire attack. Meliodas did have one bird one shot at him at close range previously (when he was fighting the commandments at once), but it just blew up when it hit him without him reacting at all.

Note how his arms are so broken at he needs to use his mouth to weild his sacred treasure, while also being tired from fighting the other commandments. That probably had something to do with it.

And he still has the feat of reacting to Monspeet's fire dragon. So both feats count. Yeay.

Galan never punched Escanor in the face. It might reasonably be easier to draw blood from Escanor's face than from the middle of his tree trunk-sized arm. And maybe if Estarossa had swung a blade as hard as he could at Escanor's arm, he would have done more damage than Galan managed. Who knows? There is literally no objective measuring stick, given Estarossa's few other showings.

So one part of Escanor's super OP body might be less durable than another part of the same super OP body? That's what you're going for? That's grasping at straws.

So let's just compare the two and the things they've both done so far. Oh and of course Estarossa would've done way more damage if he'd used his sword, getting better results in general because they use a weapon is a thing in the series.

Galan buffed himself up and hit Escanor with everything he had while weilding a weapon. Escanor did not budge and only got a small cut.
Estarossa used normal punches against Escanor. He sends Escanor flying up and down and blodies his face a bit.

Ban steals as much physical power as he can from Galan and everything within some hundred feet radius. Thanks to that and his immortality he's able to hold his own against Galan for a limited time.
Ban pushes his limits and steals even more physical power from Estarossa, based on how buff Ban gets, and tries to wrestle him away from Meliodas. Estarossa finds it amusing and isn't bothered in the slightest while he calmly murders Meliodas.

There, two similar situations that show that Estarossa is superior to Galan. Simple as that.

Source? I may very well be wrong, but I don't remember his power level being stated in the manga. If it's in an official handbook... those don't meet the standard for evidence around here, as far as I know.

It's in the handbooks. And while, like basically all other power levels in most franchises, it's not any feat or the like, it is official and it does show that it's the author's intent that Estarossa is significantly stronger than Galan. Which he's successfully done by way of feats mentioned above as well.

[Morning]

And he still has the feat of reacting to Monspeet's fire dragon. So both feats count. Yeay.

The fire dragon has no speed feats and he never reacted to the fire bird that does. So neither feats are feats.

In Ajeel's case I again say that he hasn't displayed any town busting attacks. He can probably cover a town in sand, but that's not the same as busting it.

You make it sound like a light dusting, not like anything town-sized isn't going to be flattened by many times its weight in sand dropped from hundreds of feet overhead. I don't know how sturdily they build town where you're from, but... http://imgur.com/a/6p3I3

So one part of Escanor's super OP body might be less durable than another part of the same super OP body?

It's just flat-out easier to draw blood from a human face than a human arm. That's why you don't see boxers walking around with bloody biceps after every fight.

Oh and of course Estarossa would've done way more damage if he'd used his sword, getting better results in general because they use a weapon is a thing in the series.

That means he would have done better than himself w/o the weapon. It doesn't mean he would have done better than Galan using the same attack. As for the other stuff, it's a bit complicated by the fact that we don't know exactly what time it is when Galan fought Escanor. At the end of that contest it was stated to be "almost noon," while Escanor killed Estarossa at 11:30. Estarossa bloodied Escanor's face some vague amount of time before that. Of course "almost noon" can mean practically anything.

Ban pushes his limits and steals even more physical power from Estarossa, based on how buff Ban gets, and tries to wrestle him away from Meliodas. Estarossa finds it amusing and isn't bothered in the slightest while he calmly murders Meliodas.

That's a pretty wide misreading of the scene. Estarossa's hax commandment makes anyone who faces him with hatred in his heart essentially powerless. That is clearly shown to apply not only to Ban, but to every single character who ever tries to face adult Estarossa in combat (except Escanor, who is too prideful to bother hating his opponents). That alone is sufficient to explain why Ban couldn't move him no matter how much he power-stole AND, while we're at it, why he was able to gently catch Meliodas's Revenge Counter moments before, which should have been way out his pay grade even if we were to assume he's as strong as you think he is.

Estarossa looks strong because his commandment makes his opponents weak.

It's in the handbooks. And while, like basically all other power levels in most franchises, it's not any feat or the like, it is official and it does show that it's the author's intent that Estarossa is significantly stronger than Galan.

So, not feats then. Got it.