Why does NuWally still exist?

[ed2962]

The TV show is the reason why. You could still bring back Bart (not Bar-torr), he can go by Impulse or something else.

That's what I thought. Why would they get rid of him now that they're using him in other media?

[Lee]

The original Wally West was brought back in a manner that made him too old and experienced to still be Barry Allen's sidekick.

The New 52 Bart Allen had become a big convoluted mess, and not in-line with the iconic version of the character. It would take a lot of careful planning to re-introduce the character properly. Most of his character's fanbase would probably prefer to have him back as Impulse anyway.

Meanwhile, the New 52 Flash series had just spent two years very slowly introducing the new Wally West and had finally given him powers. It would have been very crappy to throw all of that away with no pay-off. Killing him off would have a big negative impact on Barry and Iris as characters and cast a dark shadow over the series, which is counter to the "hope, optimism and legacy" direction of the DC Rebirth line.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Some of us has asked for, IMO, most of DC previous selection of minority characters have been relatively subpar. Their saving grace has been essentially milestone. Their powers are usually generic to underpowered, they very rarely do anything major in events or appear in events at all, they were rarely given solo books (hence the huge appear of the original new52 release that happen to had the first major push in diversity before DC squander that horribly with mistreatment in many different forms), and more and more.
So it's not like DC was picture perfect before new52 came out to begin with, essentially they were pretty bad to begin with, again hence the appeal of the new52.

I'd take wally west, who at least has a greater chance of success due to being attached to a legacy like the flash, over many of the original OG DC minority heroes any day, as we all known that heroes like Black Lightning would never been seen headlining a event like Miles Morales has in Civil War. NuWally, however, may have a better chance.

Then introduce him as a brand new character, a brand new Kid Flash. You don't have to give him the name "Wally West." You don't even have to make him a West or an Allen. Marvel didn't introduce Miles as "Peter Parker" or Kamala as "Carol Danvers", but they're still part of the their respective legacies.

Anyway, all this is moot. We have OG Wally back, and what's better, he's by and large Pre-Flashpoint Wally. They'll probably throw in something down the road like NuWally only goes by Wally cuz its his middle name or give him a middle name that he wants to go by.

Also, Black Lightning has been a member of the League and actually had kind of a unique role in the DCU for years. I doubt anyone would mind if DC brought him back and made him one of the main members of the JLA. So, I wouldn't count him out as taking on a more important role in the DCU.

[gwangung]

How about the fact that he could be Bart?

That's like saying my personal problem with you is that you aren't Elle McPherson.

Not sure why that's a reason for not liking younger Wally; these are all characters who, when written well, have unique personalities that add unique contributions.

[gwangung]

Some of us has asked for, IMO, most of DC previous selection of minority characters have been relatively subpar. Their saving grace has been essentially milestone. Their powers are usually generic to underpowered, they very rarely do anything major in events or appear in events at all, they were rarely given solo books (hence the huge appear of the original new52 release that happen to had the first major push in diversity before DC squander that horribly with mistreatment in many different forms), and more and more.
So it's not like DC was picture perfect before new52 came out to begin with, essentially they were pretty bad to begin with, again hence the appeal of the new52.

I'd take wally west, who at least has a greater chance of success due to being attached to a legacy like the flash, over many of the original OG DC minority heroes any day, as we all known that heroes like Black Lightning would never been seen headlining a event or have a long lasting book as most dc fans will give lip service interest in a solo series until the actual series comes out, then it will cancel in like 6 issues, in comparison to Miles Morales has in Civil War, guest starring everywhere, regularly shown on television shows, has his own animated movie coming out, etc. NuWally, however, may have a better chance.

Personally, I'd take both. But that's just me...

[BohemiaDrinker]

I doubt there was any level of troubled-ness that would have been acceptable to you.

Well, head over to Wally observation and see me defending show-Wally, then. You're observably wrong.

Cut them some slack for trying.

When they actually try, I do. When they perpetuate the same racist crap of yesteryear and try to make look like they're trying, I call BS (which it is).

[Lightning Rider]

We asked for the minority characters DC already had in their stable, not another Wally West. We already had a Wally West and he was the one people wanted. They basically made another problem entirely when they could have just brought OG Wally back and the other characters people actually wanted to come back. I don't want to pull the Marvel card but...they seems to be doing just fine on the inclusivity front as well as the sales front and they still remain DC's biggest competitor. Some of us have grown incredibly tired of waiting. It's not even complicated. Just do right by the characters and give them a chance. There is nothing stopping them from even doing Mini Stories to start them out if they don't want to invest in a solo.

It's not hard being an ally, like, at all. Listening and understanding is all it takes. Telling us "we'll get to you when we get to you" isn't exactly what we want to hear after years upon years of waiting.

Well said. There are definitely better ways to promote diversity, especially with already established characters, and as fans there's no reason we should just shut up and accept anything and everything the company does. That basically cedes all the power we have as consumers.

[leo619]

Then introduce him as a brand new character, a brand new Kid Flash. You don't have to give him the name "Wally West." You don't even have to make him a West or an Allen. Marvel didn't introduce Miles as "Peter Parker" or Kamala as "Carol Danvers", but they're still part of the their respective legacies.

Anyway, all this is moot. We have OG Wally back, and what's better, he's by and large Pre-Flashpoint Wally. They'll probably throw in something down the road like NuWally only goes by Wally cuz its his middle name or give him a middle name that he wants to go by.

Also, Black Lightning has been a member of the League and actually had kind of a unique role in the DCU for years. I doubt anyone would mind if DC brought him back and made him one of the main members of the JLA. So, I wouldn't count him out as taking on a more important role in the DCU.

There's nothing wrong with two people sharing the same name. While Miles isn't called Peter Parker, he is called Spider Man, just like Peter Parker is called Spider Man. Captain America Sam Wilson is still called Captain America even with Steve Rodgers is associated with it. While they are codenames, the similarity is the legacy and and familiarity factor that's associated with that name. By naming him as Wally West, even with another Wally West out there, gives more gravity in the comic book universe because of how familiar people are with that name. That's the reason why they named him Wally and not Bart, though another reason of course is the synergy with the television and media factor.

Many people have been a member of the justice league, that doesn't mean they are treated as important. Rage was a member of the Avengers, does that mean he's important to Marvel? Nope, well at least not now. Being a member of a team, especially something as revolving as the justice league and avengers means very little. That's one of the main reasons why Cyborg went from just a JLA member to a founding father, because being part of the Big 7 adds way more weight than just being brought to the team. So you can hold the faith if you want, but the way DC normally treats their minority heroes, I won't be holding my breath for anything special when it comes to Black Lightning. The most I can see his "maybe" a solo series or most likely mini series. Headlining an event though? A playable character in numerous DC video games? I don't see that happening.

[leo619]

Personally, I'd take both. But that's just me...

Oh I'm not saying that it should be an either or situation. It definitely shouldn't. But many of the posts here, including those asking for the OG minority characters to come back, was questioning why we needed a new wally west to begin with. And the only thing you need to do is look at what Marvel has done to see why. You won't see DC give characters like Black Lightning or Hakeen Thunder anywhere near the kind of treatment that marvel has gave Captain America, or Spider Man, or Thor. But you may see that with Wally West. You have a slim hope of seeing that with new super man. Extremely slim, but possible. Essentially, Wally West would have like a 6% chance of being the level that Miles Morales is now. Black Lightning and Static has like a 1.5% chance. I'm just being realistic.

Idealistically, I would love for the OG characters and new legacy characters of DC to be given the same treatment that marvel has given it's minority and female heroes. But DC's hesitance combine with DC's readership fanbase makes it pretty much close to impossible.

[GlennSimpson]

Well, head over to Wally observation and see me defending show-Wally, then. You're observably wrong.



When they actually try, I do. When they perpetuate the same racist crap of yesteryear and try to make look like they're trying, I call BS (which it is).

Do you actually think anybody over at DC thinks all black kids are hoodlum taggers? Or was it just an unfortunate coincidence that when they decided to bring in a black kid, they used those particular situations to create a scenario where it was plausible to have him need a father figure?

And as I mentioned earlier, on a TV show, you can have talking heads talking about a situation (in fact, some people in the "Netflix DC show" thread are complaining about that very thing) and not lose your audience. Comics has to show it.

I'm reminded of when Robert Kirkman was doing Marvel Team-Up over at Marvel. He introduced a gay super-hero. Said gay super-hero died pretty quick upon becoming a super-hero. People gave him crap about having the gay super-hero die so quick, as if a gay super-hero could not hold his own. I read where he said it was really just two different things he wanted to try (gay super-hero, super-hero who dies quickly) and honestly didn't make the connection between the two.

Sometimes people do sorta racist things accidentally. It happens. If it happens in the process of trying to be more inclusive, cut them some slack.

[Frontier]

I think right now Wally II is shaping up to be to The Flash franchise what Tim Drake was to the Batfamily, a reconstruction of the Kid Flash identity and it's role in the comics as a teen Speedster and partner to The Flash, and with far better writing and treatment then was afforded him by Venditti and Van Jensen during their Flash run, I believe he's serving that role well and has a place in the comics right now.

Especially when he's no longer replacing the original Wally or supplanting him in any fashion. And Bart will return when it's his time, I'd wager .

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

There's nothing wrong with two people sharing the same name. While Miles isn't called Peter Parker, he is called Spider Man, just like Peter Parker is called Spider Man. Captain America Sam Wilson is still called Captain America even with Steve Rodgers is associated with it. While they are codenames, the similarity is the legacy and and familiarity factor that's associated with that name.

You are referring to superhero identities, not the actual civilian names of characters. People in the Marvel Universe can look at Sam Wilson and they know he's not Steve Rogers. They look at Miles in his gear and know that he's not the same Spider-Man as the other, older one swinging around. They look at Kamala when she's Ms. Marvel and they don't confuse her with Carol Danvers.

To achieve the legacy you're talking about, it would have been sufficient to just have him assume the title of "Kid Flash", which itself carries the weight of being part of the Flash family and legacy. They could have named him John Smith and then just had him assume the Kid Flash name and you'd have the same result. Wally West is not a superhero identity to be handed down. Its the actual civilian name of a character who was first Kid Flash and then Flash. The fact that they've given NuWally the same civilian name is just confusing.

By naming him as Wally West, even with another Wally West out there, gives more gravity in the comic book universe because of how familiar people are with that name. That's the reason why they named him Wally and not Bart, though another reason of course is the synergy with the television and media factor.

Agan, we're familiar with it because it is the civilian name of a character who was Flash. Flash is the legacy name, not Wally.

And they did give him that name for a reason. But it wasn't because they wanted to give a new character a boost. It was because they wanted him to be a replacement for the Wally who was one of the most beloved legacy characters in the DCU. And, of course, we know how that went over.

That's one of the main reasons why Cyborg went from just a JLA member to a founding father, because being part of the Big 7 adds way more weight than just being brought to the team.

And still upset a lot of fans (1) because it erased Martian Manhunter who was an iconic founding member of the League and (2) because it erased Cyborg's iconic relationship with DC's other important team, the Titans and in effect neutered Cyborg's character. Cyborg was arguably a much more important part of the DCU when he was a Titan as opposed to now, where he pretty much spent 5 years doing jack squat on the League. But THIS is a topic for another thread.

Many people have been a member of the justice league, that doesn't mean they are treated as important. Rage was a member of the Avengers, does that mean he's important to Marvel? Nope, well at least not now. Being a member of a team, especially something as revolving as the justice league and avengers means very little.

So you can hold the faith if you want, but the way DC normally treats their minority heroes, I won't be holding my breath for anything special when it comes to Black Lightning. The most I can see his "maybe" a solo series or most likely mini series. Headlining an event though? A playable character in numerous DC video games? I don't see that happening.

Was Rage also a classic member of Batman's Outsiders, the Secretary of Education of the United States in President Luthor's Cabinet, and star of at least two solo series? As I said, Black Lightning has had a very unique role in the DCU for years. And I'm not saying he's a shoe-in for highest profile black character in comics, but he's well-established enough (or at least he was Pre-Flashpoint) that if DC wanted to give him an expanded role in the DCU, it wouldn't be unjustified.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I think right now Wally II is shaping up to be to The Flash franchise what Tim Drake was to the Batfamily, a reconstruction of the Kid Flash identity and it's role in the comics as a teen Speedster and partner to The Flash, and with far better writing and treatment then was afforded him by Venditti and Van Jensen during their Flash run, I believe he's serving that role well and has a place in the comics right now.

Especially when he's no longer replacing the original Wally or supplanting him in any fashion. And Bart will return when it's his time, I'd wager .

Wasn't that what Bart was originally. I'd say NuWally is more a counterpart to Damian.

[Frontier]

Wasn't that what Bart was originally. I'd say NuWally is more a counterpart to Damian.

I think Bart was far enough away from the "standard" personality-wise and in what he brought to the book that he didn't really reconstruct the Kid Flash role, as much as he was still Wally's sidekick as The Flash (and I imagine will be again when he returns).

I imagine that's part of why Mark Waid was against him becoming Kid Flash.

Wally II has more in common with Tim Drake, Mia Dearden, and Jackson Hyde, as well as the roles they serve, then he does Damian in my opinion.

[skyvolt2000]

1. I think this post is just flame bait.

Regardless of that:
2. DC doesn't need the controversy getting rid of Wally West II would cause them.

What controversy? Getting rid of a ghetto stereotype that THEY created to not only tick off real Wally fans but every single fan of Static, Aqualad, Hotspot, Natasha Irons, Steel and every other establish black character that DC could have used? And even Cyborg and John Stewart fans.

He was more offense when he was introduced. Real Wally had a messed up home life but he NEVER turned to crime. A black boy with no Dad and he is automatically a criminal? And needs a white savior like Barry to save his behind. I wanted to burn that trade.

And then in Teen Titans Rebirth-more troupe of accuse the black kid of stealing when a white one did it? Even the Teen Titans preview-describe Wally as Damian's BITCH.

If you wanted a black Flash-why not XS from Legion? She already Barry's family.


And the claim of he's on a tv show is NOT a valid reason. When others who had their own shows or roles on shows were MIA-Static, Ms Martian, Aqualad, Artemis, Booster Gold, most of Legion of superheroes, Jason Rusch, Jaime Reyes, Ryan Cho, Vixen, John Stewart, Deatstroke and many others at some time were not active in comics yet appeared in movies and tv shows.

Yet when folks bought it -EXCUSES galore came out about why they should NOT be in comics despite being on shows or movies-especially John Stewart & Static.

7. Wally II has his fans and frankly DC can't really afford to hack any group of fans off

John Stewart and Tim Drake fans would LOVE to have a word with you. As would Static fans who endured a badly done book and the "writer" blamed the fans for not taking CRAP.

Rebirth to pull some money out of the hands of some fans with ridiculous expectations, thankfully they are holding steady with moving away from a storytelling environment where all of their heroic characters are white and straight.

Really?
Dc had no trouble getting rid of Cassandra Cain. No minority female can boast a longer solo run. And folks wanted to USE her.

Or wanting to kill John Stewart. That the writer QUIT.

Looking at Rebirth for black characters-majority supporting or plot device roles.

A fake Static (Ben) in Supergirl-who LOL has home issues too. Aqualad......you can smell the plot device with him. Duke too-wait till JOKER comes back in Batman #25.

Even the black boy in Doom Patrol is mess (no friends, Daddy doesn't understand him and he worships probably Dc's version of Mephisto) and a plot device.

How many more black males at DC will have Daddy issues?

Can ANYONE at this company produce a NORMAL black male with 2 parents, a normal school life and part time superhero?

Well, this discussion certainly got heated fast. *eats popcorn*

You might want to stock up.

Black Wally serves no purpose. He is nothing more but a REMINDER of what was bad about New 52 and burying a fan favorite to promote a PET doesn't always work out. Especially when you plan to NEVER bring back the original.

And real Wally fans-that is who stands in the way of real Wally showing up in live action projects. Because Dc continues to do such a piss poor job of building up and supporting minorities with continuous support. He will be used as the diversity chip to make up for Cyborg and the eventually mess of live action John Stewart.