Rank these villains in order of intelligence

[Abe]

Actually that would be Fu Manchu. Doom owes a lot of old Fu. One can also see influences of Dracula and Captain Nemo in him, but Fu Manchu is the most relevant in the context of this conversation.

I still need to work on that character... Thanks for the info, MichaelC! I love the pulp influences on Doom - and on every comics. It's not so easy to get Fu Manchu books in comic book stores... (I also have to seriously read Steranko's SHIELD... IIRC he uses Fu Manchu in a story featuring also Doom - and some symbols related to Shiva - the Creator and the Destroyer - something related to Doom's ambiguity...? Jules Verne's Nemo, in my confused memories is not exactly a villain, but those are childhood memories... I love those old histories of tropes! When literature and popular culture interact in the better way!)

[Iron Maiden]

Actually that would be Fu Manchu. Doom owes a lot of old Fu. One can also see influences of Dracula and Captain Nemo in him, but Fu Manchu is the most relevant in the context of this conversation.

And a touch of Phantom of the Opera thrown in too.

[Michael Watkins]

You do realize that I was pointing out that in publication history, Doom has always had the dual mastery in science and magic. It predates by at least a decade Thanos's first appearance. So that statement about Thanos dabbling in the dark arts only shows that the writer thought having a science & magic powerset was cool.

whenever you start losing an argument, you fall back on Doom being "first." having seniority doesn't make you the best.

[Michael Watkins]

Once again, Doom as accomplished more with less resources at his disposal.

Doom was left a book of sorcery. Thanos did not have a book a sorcery. Thanos learned everything his planet had to offer and went looking elsewhere. the only resource of any relevance in this discussion is brain power. I say that Thanos' brain is more powerful.

[Iron Maiden]

I still need to work on that character... Thanks for the info, MichaelC! I love the pulp influences on Doom - and on every comics. It's not so easy to get Fu Manchu books in comic book stores... (I also have to seriously read Steranko's SHIELD... IIRC he uses Fu Manchu in a story featuring also Doom - and some symbols related to Shiva - the Creator and the Destroyer - something related to Doom's ambiguity...? Jules Verne's Nemo, in my confused memories is not exactly a villain, but those are childhood memories... I love those old histories of tropes! When literature and popular culture interact in the better way!)

Steranko used a Marvel golden Age villain called the Yellow Claw in his SHIELD but it could be that he was already part of the plot he took over from Lee/Kirby. I've read most of the Sax Rohmer Fu Manchu books when the came out in paper, right around the time IIRC Conan was brought out of obscurity due to the paperback's using Frank Frazetta for some of the covers. Fu Manchu is definitely not PC since they were written around the time of the "Yellow Peril". But he was featured in films by Hammer as recent as the 1970s with Christopher Lee in the part. Karloff was the first to play him back in the 1930s. I have to say though Rohmer books were entertaining page turners. Fu Manchu had "the brow of Shakespeare" and was four times a doctor, having 4 doctorates from various universities like the Sorbonne (Bride of Fu Manchu)

[Iron Maiden]

whenever you start losing an argument, you fall back on Doom being "first." having seniority doesn't make you the best.

What? Have you been stalking me or something? I've hardly interacted with you at all. Being first means that a lot of times other characters can be inspired by that character. No character is entirely original; I've also brought up Doom' similarity to the pulp era villain Fu Manchu. Stan and Jack probably drew upon a lot of sources for there work in building the Marvel stable of characters in the 1960s

The other poster brought it up by saying Thanos learned magic hundreds of years ago. But that doesn't correlate to publication history since Doom predates Thanos.

[Abe]

Steranko used a Marvel golden Age villain called the Yellow Claw in his SHIELD but it could be that he was already part of the plot he took over from Lee/Kirby. I've read most of the Sax Rohmer Fu Manchu books when the came out in paper, right around the time IIRC Conan was brought out of obscurity due to the paperback's using Frank Frazetta for some of the covers. Fu Manchu is definitely not PC since they were written around the time of the "Yellow Peril". But he was featured in films by Hammer as recent as the 1970s with Christopher Lee in the part. Karloff was the first to play him back in the 1930s. I have to say though Rohmer books were entertaining page turners. Fu Manchu had "the brow of Shakespeare" and was four times a doctor, having 4 doctorates from various universities like the Sorbonne (Bride of Fu Manchu)

My university ! Alma mater...

Thanks for the infos, Iron Maiden... As always

[Michael Watkins]

What? Have you been stalking me or something?

no need in this case. you pretty much only post to talk about Doom. you are known for being a Doom fan.

I've hardly interacted with you at all.

exactly. but it's always about Doom. I tend to remember people who are hyperfocused on one character. it's like that poster who ships Jessica Drew and Peter Parker.

Being first means that a lot of times other characters can be inspired by that character. No character is entirely original; I've also brought up Doom' similarity to the pulp era villain Fu Manchu.

and you've replied to me after I have pointed out that he draws from Dr.Frankenstein and Dracula.

Stan and Jack probably drew upon a lot of sources for there work in building the Marvel stable of characters in the 1960s

exactly. so there's no point to bring up Thanos' influences. Doom isn't original either.

The other poster brought it up by saying Thanos learned magic hundreds of years ago. But that doesn't correlate to publication history since Doom predates Thanos.

sure

[yet another]

I had a feeling it would end in a showdown between Doom and Thanos. Keep it up guys and gals, interesting comparisons.

[Doc Sonic]

Thanos is a badass, no doubt about it. Yet there's just no one above Doom in the department.
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby took every great villains of the history popular fiction (Fantômas, Fu Machu, Dr. Mabuse, The Man in The Iron Mask, you name it) put it all in a paint shaker and came up with the greatest villain to ever grace the comic book page. Thanos, Darkseid, Lex Luthor, The Joker... they'll always be second fiddle to Doom.

[BadTitan]

Nope, it's not. It means that he has the design and the vision for a particular task and he assigns workers to carry out the rest.



Yeah, he became the only murderer on the planet for untold ages. I think it was wise that he was shunned. His mother knew what he would become and that's why she went mad.



You do realize that I was pointing out that in publication history, Doom has always had the dual mastery in science and magic. It predates by at least a decade Thanos's first appearance. So that statement about Thanos dabbling in the dark arts only shows that the writer thought having a science & magic powerset was cool.

you mean just like Thanos, yet Dooms is supposedly better lol. Also Thanos does stuff with his own knowledge.

He was shunnned from birth due to his look, and his original origin he was barred from Titan as a teen for oracting the dark arts.

Publication history means nothing. From Thanos early appearances it was noted of his expulsion from Titan due to his past actions.
So no his creator didn't just think it was cool as it was part of his origin all along.

[Michael Watkins]

Thanos is a badass, no doubt about it. Yet there's just no one above Doom in the department.
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby took every great villains of the history popular fiction (Fantômas, Fu Machu, Dr. Mabuse, The Man in The Iron Mask, you name it) put it all in a paint shaker and came up with the greatest villain to ever grace the comic book page. Thanos, Darkseid, Lex Luthor, The Joker... they'll always be second fiddle to Doom.

i'll believe it when Doom isn't an embarrassing movie villain.

[theoneandonly]

whether thanos is or not more intelligent than doom he respects him as he does few earthmen to the point of constantly having him under supervision so that is a indirect acknowledgement of the danger doom poses when even mad titan gods also feel they need to keep an eye upon him as narrated by thanos himself in the end. Secondly doom was able to steal the power of beyonder and galactus who saw all things as mites in the universe and always has faced and overcome insane superior odds all alone. when has thanos prevailed against such odds? He has had to resort to trickery to claim a false victory over SS who had first defeated him whereas doom was able to steal his power. He was put to tremendous efforts just to steal the infinity gems from the elders although the way he outwitted and outmatched them was a classic feat. Finally he just loses all credibility when he confronted doom in secret war and couldn't duplicate the feat doom has been pulling off almost from beginning of wresting power from a superior foe through sheer perservance and force of will. if he had able to steal dooms power or overwhelm him or even trick him then his superiority over doom would have been established instead of which he was found lacking.

[Michael Watkins]

whether thanos is or not more intelligent than doom he respects him as he does few earthmen to the point of constantly having him under supervision so that is a indirect acknowledgement of the danger doom poses when even mad titan gods also feel they need to keep an eye upon him as narrated by thanos himself in the end. Secondly doom was able to steal the power of beyonder and galactus who saw all things as mites in the universe and always has faced and overcome insane superior odds all alone. when has thanos prevailed against such odds? He has had to resort to trickery to claim a false victory over SS who had first defeated him whereas doom was able to steal his power. He was put to tremendous efforts just to steal the infinity gems from the elders although the way he outwitted and outmatched them was a classic feat. Finally he just loses all credibility when he confronted doom in secret war and couldn't duplicate the feat doom has been pulling off almost from beginning of wresting power from a superior foe through sheer perservance and force of will. if he had able to steal dooms power or overwhelm him or even trick him then his superiority over doom would have been established instead of which he was found lacking.

that would have lessened the impact of Reed Richards saving the day. try again.

[theoneandonly]

that would have lessened the impact of Reed Richards saving the day. try again.

i don't need to try as the superiority of dooms intellect comes through where he through his matchless will and guile is time and again able to steal power from gods and thanos in a fit of hubris confronts him and can't steal it from a human being. Secondly the multiverse is being restuctured by reed after doom salvaged it so basically he is living in a universe crafted by humans who if they had desired might have erased him from reality itself which should instill a measure of humility in him.