Wonder Woman #17 - Spoilers

[BrianWilly]

I don't understand Cyber's projections or holograms or whatever you call them. For one, exactly from where are they being projected??? Can they just appear out of nowhere? That would seem weird. I don't think that the artwork is helping (or the writing) to make this clear....or maybe I'm just slow! Anyhow, I would like it if there was an actual person or cyborg/person thing walking around who was identified as the Doctor...and I'm really not certain of her motivation...perhaps it will be revealed as the story unspools but right now i'm a bit confused.

It's not as clear in this issue, but Cale has metal globes floating around her office that project Cyber's holograms. They're kinda like Mr. Terrific's T-spheres, except they open up and can go anywhere they want.

edit: It's really evident here:

Wonder Woman (2016-) 015-011.jpg

[MarquisAsh]

She also had probes floating around Sasha earlier in the series. I'm sure she have them through the globe. That's why it's so easy for her to see everything.

[SiegePerilous02]

One thing I liked about the conversation between Diana and the snake was when it said "Father," she said "Mother." I see that as a subtle dig to the New 52 era where she was defined by her lineage to her father, but nope screw that noise, let's bring the focus back to the female driven narrative about "righteous queens" and their influence on their daughters instead of douchebag patriarchs.

[BrianWilly]

I'm sure there's some sort of hint or clue in that word association game they were playing and it'll be clear when the truth is revealed, but so far we just (frustratingly!) don't have enough info yet to guess at what that might be.

The fact that Diana shuts down at the snake's mention of "Man," and it transformed into some ominous skeletal version of itself during that word in particular...hmmmmmm.

Ugh, I do with this story was going faster! At least, according to Mr. Snake, we're "almost there"...

[Awonder]

One thing I liked about the conversation between Diana and the snake was when it said "Father," she said "Mother." I see that as a subtle dig to the New 52 era where she was defined by her lineage to her father, but nope screw that noise, let's bring the focus back to the female driven narrative about "righteous queens" and their influence on their daughters instead of douchebag patriarchs.

I like the way you think.

And, I really enjoyed the issue, though the good character development makes for a sad day for Cheetah.

[Lex Luthor]

Im glad barbara is taking up the mantle of cheetah again but i hope she does something to betray them I hope by the end of this we get to see why Cheetah is just a bit more important than all of Diana's other foes.

[Dexter Plexter]

Im glad barbara is taking up the mantle of cheetah again but i hope she does something to betray them I hope by the end of this we get to see why Cheetah is just a bit more important than all of Diana's other foes.

I get what you are saying but unfortunately I think Cheetah already stands out because the other foes appear weak and underwritten. Cheetah has at least has some kind of backstory and depth and complexity. And I am really looking forward to the return of her darker and more evil side. However the rest of Villainy Inc. reads more like Villain-Meh Inc.:

-Cale seems like generic wealthy soccer mom who just happens to be generally angry at WW.

-Poison is no longer a person but a kind of GI Jane special ops unit headed by a pretty generic and not terribly evil or twisted commander.

-Cyber is no longer a person but just a disembodied holo-thingie...wait now she may be somewhat embodied because some plus size, tatted tech lady got stuck in the machine.

Cheetah is the only one who has not been corporatized and watered down imho. Give us more somewhat crazy and complex characters who have a compelling and compulsive need to kill WW and/or destroy her mission. Otherwise you have a bunch of characters who could be dropped into anybody's book and with a few tweaks become someone else's arch foe.

[Zahina]

I get what you are saying but unfortunately I think Cheetah already stands out because the other foes appear weak and underwritten. Cheetah has at least has some kind of backstory and depth and complexity. And I am really looking forward to the return of her darker and more evil side. However the rest of Villainy Inc. reads more like Villain-Meh Inc.:

-Cale seems like generic wealthy soccer mom who just happens to be generally angry at WW.

-Poison is no longer a person but a kind of GI Jane special ops unit headed by a pretty generic and not terribly evil or twisted commander.

-Cyber is no longer a person but just a disembodied holo-thingie...wait now she may be somewhat embodied because some plus size, tatted tech lady got stuck in the machine.

Cheetah is the only one who has not been corporatized and watered down imho. Give us more somewhat crazy and complex characters who have a compelling and compulsive need to kill WW and/or destroy her mission. Otherwise you have a bunch of characters who could be dropped into anybody's book and with a few tweaks become someone else's arch foe.

Is it really that hard for Wonder Woman to have great villians/villianesses to fight against?

[CRaymond]

Is it really that hard for Wonder Woman to have great villians/villianesses to fight against?

I can't take Dexter's criticisms seriously. I think Rucka's made me change my mind about a hundred things I used to have opinions about. I think we can discuss issues with characterizations without jumping to a summarized judgment.

[gbshabo]

Just read and it was good on so many levels. Particularly nice was Liam Sharpe's art. Just amazing. poor Cheetah

[Dr. Poison]

I can't take Dexter's criticisms seriously. I think Rucka's made me change my mind about a hundred things I used to have opinions about. I think we can discuss issues with characterizations without jumping to a summarized judgment.

Same here. I was never a fan of Veronica Cale before and not overly excited about Dr. Cyber either but the current run from Rucka has made me change my mind about both of them. As for these characters being "someone else's arch foe", that could be any villains from any hero's rogues gallery given the right circumstances. Heroes swap villains all of the time and usually give them back. Variety is the spice of life.

[Dexter Plexter]

I can't take Dexter's criticisms seriously. I think Rucka's made me change my mind about a hundred things I used to have opinions about. I think we can discuss issues with characterizations without jumping to a summarized judgment.

I am discussing issues about character (seriously!) and citing why certain villains, with the exception of Cheetah, are not really working for me in the current run. I appreciate your difference of opinion though.

On another note, I am happy to see the return of Ferdinand and look forward to seeing what plans Rucka has in store for the character. Other than Hermes from back in the Perez days I can't think of a mythological ally who has consistently been in Diana's corner.

[SiegePerilous02]

The fact that Diana shuts down at the snake's mention of "Man," and it transformed into some ominous skeletal version of itself during that word in particular...hmmmmmm.

Ugh, I do with this story was going faster! At least, according to Mr. Snake, we're "almost there"...

The "man" thing is pretty weird. I have a guess about what the rest of it means, but that one I'm blanking on.

About the pacing, I did a binge read of the present day storylines last night: the Lies TPB plus #13, 15 and 17. And read all at once, Diana being sidelined doesn't last all that long at all. Especially if she comes back to herself next issue (as the ending of this one, the solicit and the cover for #19 seem to indicate), then it will just be 3 chapters out of 24 or so where she fades into the background, while still having some very fascinating solo scenes while everyone else is motivated in some way by their connection to her.

I get what you are saying but unfortunately I think Cheetah already stands out because the other foes appear weak and underwritten. Cheetah has at least has some kind of backstory and depth and complexity. And I am really looking forward to the return of her darker and more evil side. However the rest of Villainy Inc. reads more like Villain-Meh Inc.:

-Cale seems like generic wealthy soccer mom who just happens to be generally angry at WW.

-Poison is no longer a person but a kind of GI Jane special ops unit headed by a pretty generic and not terribly evil or twisted commander.

-Cyber is no longer a person but just a disembodied holo-thingie...wait now she may be somewhat embodied because some plus size, tatted tech lady got stuck in the machine.

Cheetah is the only one who has not been corporatized and watered down imho. Give us more somewhat crazy and complex characters who have a compelling and compulsive need to kill WW and/or destroy her mission. Otherwise you have a bunch of characters who could be dropped into anybody's book and with a few tweaks become someone else's arch foe.

To be fair, Cheetah is basically the deutragonist of this run and her relationship with Diana is very important, plus she got her own one shot focus issue. However, the various members of Godwatch appear to be getting their own focus issues coming up in that arc. #18 is Dr. Cyber, 20 is Circe and 22 is Cale. Even if they have a ways to catch up with Barbara, I still think the first part of Godwatch gave us a good hook for Adrianna in particular.

Poison is a little more generic, as I prefer the Eric Luke version so far. But at least she and her crew will be sporting costumes similar to her classic self next issue.

[CRaymond]

I appreciate your difference of opinion though.

Thank you. In time, I may agree with you. I just feel you're being hasty with what I feel are entirely new characters.

[PopQuezy]

Poison is a little more generic, as I prefer the Eric Luke version so far. But at least she and her crew will be sporting costumes similar to her classic self next issue.

I hope Poison actually specializes in poison. I know we've heard about the Maru Virus in Year One, but I hope this poison actually uses poison to harm, terrorize and kill, as well.