Spider-Woman #16 - SPOILERS

[jackolover]

I kinda agree, I think they where planning statue quo changes already but the controversy either speed up there random thoughts and they pulled something out fast.

Anyways, I think Spider-Woman should go full hero again. Maybe not Avenger, especially with all their bad stories atm, but at least drop the Private Eye biz. Jessica Jones will just steal her spotlight here because of the free marketing of Netflix and Bendis. While Jessica Drew was the Private Eye first it's kinda Jessica Jones only thing, Jessica Drew has had tons of roles and could easily shift better to a new one... plus her biggest claim to fame was reappearing in New Avengers, only die hards really know her past as a Private Eye and too many dropped Hopeless's run before that started either. To most people these days, she's an Avenger and Spy. She can still investogate stuff in either role so not much really has to change but optics.

She could join Carol perhaps, maybe do something with Silk, possibly Mockingbird, or maybe even Black Widow. All are kinda good possibilities atm. All offer benifits for Jessica.

Silk would keep everything at Spider Editorial so Jessica could have free reign to all the characters Spider-Man isn't using atm. Plus we could get back to the master and apprentice plot they had going (maybe even bring back Anya Corazon). This way she could stay in New York city and keep the Porcupine & single mom story in the forefront.

Tieing her in with Captain Marvel meaning they could hang out way more in both stories and Carol could give Jessica and crew things to investigate near the Triskellion (New York city, so again nothing drastic thus single mom stories could easily be told). Anya Corazon might be a good match her too as she's been trained by both Carol and Jess.

While Black Widow and Mockingbird usually mean Shield, they could easily rework it to fit in a location like New York city so Jessica could stay at home between missions/investigation.

To his credit, Hopeless got Jessica's personality mostly right. Though he majorly rushed her quiting the Avengers to just a few lines spread over 4 issues prior to it and the Mother thing was very 'OMG shocking cover read to find out more', my only real complaint there was Jessica historically hating kids or at least avoiding them and the whole 'who's the dad set up' that didn't actually reveal anything. I suppose a future writer now will get to pick the father one day, because it's too good a plot not to. I hope Hopeless doesn't regret leaving it open one day. Well, maybe that will be a shocking twist in next issue and Hopeless will get the last say here, lol.

Does anybody think Bendis's take on Spiderwoman was correct? (Where Jess was all at sea because she didn't know how to cope with being the daughter of Hydra parents, so she was paranoid that she was half bad guy and trying to reform herself all the time). If Bendis' Spiderwoman is correct, did Hopeless convey that emotional element to Jess in his stories, and, does Latour follow that pattern for Jess as well?

[Seren]

Hmm..I think by the time Hopeless got her, Jess was at a different place. When Hopeless got his hands on Jess I think she was certainly still a mess (She still has issues with Skrulls and she's saved the world of so many times she's totally jaded and doesn't remember how to deal with regular people). At the beginning of the Pregnancy arc she's talking to Carol on the phone and comments how badly her to parents messed her up- that she had no business attempting being a parent herself. But I think the whole thing point of Hopeless Spider-Woman run is Jessica finally kind of of moving on from Bendis Spiders Don't Have Families(in Spider-Woman Origin) mentality and making her own sort of family with Gerry, Carol, Roger, Ben, (and to a smaller extent)Gwen and Cindy.

So, yes at the time I think Bendis take was correct, but Hopeless has taken the time to move Jess past that point where she's allowed herself a family and some happiness. And Lord know Jessica Drew deserves it. His Spider-Woman has been one of the most emotionally satisfying books I've read in awhile. He gets the heartbreaks and the laughs and everything inbetween.

Latour had had Jess pop up in Spider-Gwen and I am pretty confident he would be able to do the same.

[jackolover]

Hmm..I think by the time Hopeless got her, Jess was at a different place. The the time Hopeless got his hands on Jess I think she was certainly still a mess (She still has issues with Skrulls and she's saved the world of so many times she's totally jaded and doesn't remember how to deal with regular people). At the beginning of the Pregnancy arc she's talking to Carol on the way phone and comments how badly her to parents messed her up..she I has no business attempting being a parent herself. But I think the whole thing point of Hopeless Spider-Woman run is Jessica finally kind of of moving on from Bendis Spiders Don't Have Families(in Spider-Woman Origin) mentality and making her own sort of family with Gerry, Carol, Roger, Ben, (and to a smaller extent)Gwen and Cindy.

So, yes at the time I think Bendis take was correct, but Hopeless has taken the time to move Jess past that point where she's allowed herself a family and some happiness. And Lord know Jessica Drew deserves it. His Spider-Woman has been one of the most emotionally satisfying books I've read in awhile. He gets the heartbreaks and the laughs and everything inbetween.

Latour had had Jess pop up in Spider-Gwen and I am pretty confident he would be able to do the same.

Thanks Seren. That puts Jessica Drews development into context regarding Hopeless and Latours approaches.

[Seren]

I will say I think Latour dials up Jess banter a bit with Gwen (Jess also trolls Gwen a bit like a big sister would) but you can tell Jess cares.

And in Spider-Gwen, it's pretty clear Jess has made an impression on Gwen because she mentions Jess quite a bit.

[Digifiend]

And Peter Parker knows that Gwen regularly comes to 616 to see her. The relationship between the two Spider-Women is an open secret!

[SlimeBeherit]

Only she didn't really save him, Carol did.

Way to ignore all the blood, sweat and broken bones Jess took in order to get to him. Not only that but by the time that Carol showed up, Roger didn't need saving. I'm sure they would have won that fight, Carol just spared them a few more broken ribs. The issue was about how Jess is willing to go through hell for the people she loves, and she proved it, regardless of "saving" Roger.

I'm sorry but if that's the caliber of storytelling that the book could muster then it's not surprising sales are in the toilet.

Meh, a lot of Marvels best books sell pretty badly. For all the praise that Vision got, it was also selling in the same range as Spider-Woman.

[brettc1]

Way to ignore all the blood, sweat and broken bones Jess took in order to get to him. Not only that but by the time that Carol showed up, Roger didn't need saving. I'm sure they would have won that fight, Carol just spared them a few more broken ribs. The issue was about how Jess is willing to go through hell for the people she loves, and she proved it, regardless of "saving" Roger.



Meh, a lot of Marvels best books sell pretty badly. For all the praise that Vision got, it was also selling in the same range as Spider-Woman.

Jess and Rogers reaction to Carol blasting the villsins is a pretty good indicator that THEY didn't think they could win. Jess DID keep Roger alive long enough for Carol to show up, but as a series ender it felt flat.

[Seren]

Well - it's not exactly the end end. We still have on issue left and I trust that Hopeless will tie up the loose ends pretty neatly

[brettc1]

Well - it's not exactly the end end. We still have on issue left and I trust that Hopeless will tie up the loose ends pretty neatly

Yeah, but that's just the last five minutes of the tv episode between the end of the fight and the credits. It's not like Angel Season 4 where he had actually beaten the big bads plan and Connor just finished her off. They literally would have lost had Carol not showed up.

It's like Spider-Man going through hell to save MJ from his rogues, and then just as he's about to lose Thor turns up and blasts them.

And then the book is cancelled and that's the note you end on.

For me that doesn't feel satisfying. Especially with Carols pontificating her about power levels. Cause it's not all about power, yet somehow Jess ends her last fight as a damsel in distress.

[Seren]

I did not see Jess as a damsel in on distress at all here.

[brettc1]

She needs to get bailed out of her last fight by her "badass superhero (friend) who's more powerful than (her)".

So... Yeah, she kinda is. Just because she gets rescued by another woman makes little difference.

[Seren]

I can understand your point but I am going to disagree XD Please don't hate me.

Ben called Carol (he's done this before when he was concerned about Jess) - the last thing Ben probably heard when he was talking to Jess in the last issue was that bomb going off and the ensuing crash. So Ben calls Carol because he's clearly worried about Jess. Carol, despite the fact that Jess is mad at her, runs to Jess's aid because she still cares about Jess. And that speech she gave to Jess about being more powerful or whatever - I took that as Carol blowing off some frustrations while also kicking ass cause that's what Carol does.

I would've been more surprised if Carol hadn't shown up as fast as she could. If the situation was reversed, I'm pretty sure Jess would've done the same for Carol. Because that's what friends do for each other - especially friends that are more family than anything else at this point.

I don't feel like Jess was showing any distress or weakness here. She was more than ready to go another round with Hobgoblin not backing down in anyway way and still capable of fighting despite her injuries. If Jess was truly in distress, I think she'd have to be unconscious (IMO a good example of Jessica in Distress was the shower scene in issue #14 up until she finds that Roger is alive or back in #11 when she's wrecking Bruce's lab.).

[TerminalSanity]

Yeah but BEN called Carol (he's done this before when he was concerned about Jess) - the last thing Ben probably heard when he was talking to Jess in the last issue was that bomb going off and the ensuing crash. So Ben calls Carol because he's clearly worried about Jess. Carol, despite the fact that Jess is mad at her, runs to Jess's aid because she still cares about Jess. And that speech she gave to Jess about being more powerful or whatever - I took that as Carol blowing off some frustrations while also kicking ass cause that's what Carol does.

I would've been more surprised if Carol hadn't shown up as fast as she could. If the situation was reversed, I'm pretty sure Jess would've done the same for Carol. Because that's what friends do for each other - especially friends that are more family than anything else at this point.

I don't feel like Jess was showing any distress or weakness here. She was more than ready to go another round with Hobgoblin not backing down in anyway way. If Jess was truly in distress, I think she'd have to be unconscious (or actually, a good case of Jessica in Distress was the shower scene in issue #14.)

Honestly to it just seemed like something shoehorned in exclusively to have Carol try and redeem herself to Jess and to readers alike after the crap she pulled in Civil Fridiging ll: Precognitive Boogaloo and frankly it just felt flat, false, and forced. Something written more for the sake of Carol's character and character arc and not Jess's which is piss poor way to end a run for a title character have them service a guest star's arc not their own.

[Seren]

XD Clearly I am outvoted. I totally get your opinion. Right now it doesn't bother me - I think I'll wait until the next issue to see if that changes.

[Dreaded Porcupine]

Jess and Roger were ready to finish it. They didn't ask for Carol to show up. Adrenalin was flowing. I can understand Ben ratting out the situation to Carol. Hobby is a nasty villain that will murder. Roger was blown to smitherines right in front of his eyes. Plus Jess has a baby that needs her. And maybe just maybe Jess might be a regular now in Carol's mag until she hopefully gets relaunched. Hopefully she shows up everywhere to give her more exposure to fans who never picked up her mag. Marvel might already have plans for a relaunch after SE and they are marketing her for various réasons. If she's a regular somewhere all her fans will be there. As in an increase in sales for that particular title.

I hope #17 is more than tieing up loose ends. I hope it is a prelude to her future. They are riding off into the sunset. Maybe it is to a new gig. Yeah I know Roger has a beard so that is past tense but we'll see.