The new Madame Hydra/Elisa Sinclair is Kobik

[Michael Watkins]

agree or disagree?

[Michael Watkins]

[Agronac919]

Cap2-1.jpg
disgusted-mother-of-god.jpg

[Michael Watkins]

see? it's making sense isn't it? brand new character shows up out of thin air and steers Steve Rogers towards heading up Hydra (but, apparently, a Hydra that isn't pro-racism). plus, she just transported herself and Bucky into the past.

[Montressor]

I disagree, I think Elisa Sinclair is a certain villain's daughter.

Note the focus on the color red in all the images of her in the flashbacks.

But that's just me.

[jackolover]

see? it's making sense isn't it? brand new character shows up out of thin air and steers Steve Rogers towards heading up Hydra (but, apparently, a Hydra that isn't pro-racism). plus, she just transported herself and Bucky into the past.

There were a lot of unanswered questions about Elisa Sinclairs appearance in Bagalia at precisely the moment of a transaction between Taskmaster and Maria Hill. And like you say, Elisa is a brand new character. It's like Kobik inserted this person as a transitioning element to move Steve Rogers about, firstly in the past, from 1927 onwards to WWII. Then as a secret functionary in the True Hydra, who just happens to interrupt the Hill/Tasky deal.

If Elisa is a Kobik invention in this case, and it certainly looks like she is, then Elisa has to be manipulated by Kobik. What has to be established is to what extent is Kobiks interference here in Elisa, the modern. This Elisa can't be just allowed to wander around by herself and do whatever she wants, so if Kobik is manipulating a lot more than what we realise, as Selvig suggests, then Kobik related to Elisa becomes a very tight relationship. You may have something here.

[Michael Watkins]

I disagree, I think Elisa Sinclair is a certain villain's daughter.

Note the focus on the color red in all the images of her in the flashbacks.

But that's just me.

oh believe me, I noticed that part of the name. but I couldn't figure out why she'd be working at cross purposes to the Red Skull. Elisa seems to have plans of her own for molding Steve. maybe I'm just misinterpreting her "real Hydra" comments. but she's also seemingly in an alliance with Rogers (against the Skull); on some of the covers.

[Michael Watkins]

There were a lot of unanswered questions about Elisa Sinclairs appearance in Bagalia at precisely the moment of a transaction between Taskmaster and Maria Hill. And like you say, Elisa is a brand new character. It's like Kobik inserted this person as a transitioning element to move Steve Rogers about, firstly in the past, from 1927 onwards to WWII. Then as a secret functionary in the True Hydra, who just happens to interrupt the Hill/Tasky deal.

If Elisa is a Kobik invention in this case, and it certainly looks like she is, then Elisa has to be manipulated by Kobik. What has to be established is to what extent is Kobiks interference here in Elisa, the modern. This Elisa can't be just allowed to wander around by herself and do whatever she wants, so if Kobik is manipulating a lot more than what we realise, as Selvig suggests, then Kobik related to Elisa becomes a very tight relationship. You may have something here.

I'm just thinking long term. someone is going to take the fall for all of this Hydra-Cap stuff. and I, personally, don't think that it's going to be Steve. they need a scapegoat. Red Skull's too predictable. Zemo is clearly just going with the flow. and Steve needs to be salvageable as a hero. if an innocent cosmic cube did all of this, it makes it a little more tragic. plus, they really do need to get rid of Kobik; at some point. despite her being taken in by Bucky, she's way too dangerous. so if they "aged" her up a bit, she becomes fair game; for supehero assault. Montressor thinks it's Sinthea. and there are signs that point in that direction. I just think that it's a red herring. she's too much of a lackey, imo.

[XPac]

oh believe me, I noticed that part of the name. but I couldn't figure out why she'd be working at cross purposes to the Red Skull. Elisa seems to have plans of her own for molding Steve. maybe I'm just misinterpreting her "real Hydra" comments. but she's also seemingly in an alliance with Rogers (against the Skull); on some of the covers.

One thing to remember though is that this Red Skull isn't actually the one that's her dad. It's a clone.

I THNK the real one is dead, but ya never know.

[Michael Watkins]

One thing to remember though is that this Red Skull isn't actually the one that's her dad. It's a clone.

I THNK the real one is dead, but ya never know.

good point

[jackolover]

I'm just thinking long term. someone is going to take the fall for all of this Hydra-Cap stuff. and I, personally, don't think that it's going to be Steve. they need a scapegoat. Red Skull's too predictable. Zemo is clearly just going with the flow. and Steve needs to be salvageable as a hero. if an innocent cosmic cube did all of this, it makes it a little more tragic. plus, they really do need to get rid of Kobik; at some point. despite her being taken in by Bucky, she's way too dangerous. so if they "aged" her up a bit, she becomes fair game; for supehero assault. Montressor thinks it's Sinthea. and there are signs that point in that direction. I just think that it's a red herring. she's too much of a lackey, imo.

If Elisa Sinclair and Kobik are the same, they would have to meld the two into one entity at some point, I'd say, so your rationale could be followed, and everything done to Kobik could be done on an adult level. But the child that is Kobik/Cosmic cube needs to embrace an aging up for this to happen so that action could be taken against it. Has there ever been a personification of a Cosmic Cube before? Like a real person with the power of a Cosmic Cube?

[Ianbarreilles]

I'm just thinking long term. someone is going to take the fall for all of this Hydra-Cap stuff. and I, personally, don't think that it's going to be Steve. they need a scapegoat. Red Skull's too predictable. Zemo is clearly just going with the flow. and Steve needs to be salvageable as a hero. if an innocent cosmic cube did all of this, it makes it a little more tragic. plus, they really do need to get rid of Kobik; at some point. despite her being taken in by Bucky, she's way too dangerous. so if they "aged" her up a bit, she becomes fair game; for supehero assault. Montressor thinks it's Sinthea. and there are signs that point in that direction. I just think that it's a red herring. she's too much of a lackey, imo.

Also if you've been reading the current red skull arc in uncanny avengers sin is actually in the story she's appeared quite a bit along with the red skull in the story recently in the newest issue #20 and the third part of the arc she got punched in the face by deadpool then rogue whose being mind controlled by the red skull punches a hole through deadpool it's really crazy but that along with thunderbolts are telling their own story as lead ins to secret empire.

But back on topic yeah it's highly unlikely sin is Elisa Sinclair since Elisa is Madame hydra and isn't anywhere near the red skull as far as we know and there's even been hints that Elisa especially in the flashbacks wants to bring hydra to its pre nazi status while the red skull wants to maintain the nazi leanings of hydra also Elisa has black hair I believe sin has red hair.

I will say it'll be interesting if Elisa Sinclair is revealed to be version of Kobik that was created in human form when Kobik rewrote Steves memories and history.

I think Elisa Sinclair is ultimately going to be revealed mid way into secret empire to be the true villian of the story I kinda want her to be the villian of the story too since in a way it makes sense since she was the one who manipulated and corrupted Steve into becoming a hydra agent more so after she killed his mother when Steves mother tried to get Steve in an effort to run away from hydra.

[Digifiend]

If Elisa Sinclair and Kobik are the same, they would have to meld the two into one entity at some point, I'd say, so your rationale could be followed, and everything done to Kobik could be done on an adult level. But the child that is Kobik/Cosmic cube needs to embrace an aging up for this to happen so that action could be taken against it. Has there ever been a personification of a Cosmic Cube before? Like a real person with the power of a Cosmic Cube?

Yeah, Kobik is the second one. The first one was called Kubik and appeared in Captain America Annual #7, published in October 1983.
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Kubik_(Earth-616)

[Michael Watkins]

Also if you've been reading the current red skull arc in uncanny avengers sin is actually in the story she's appeared quite a bit along with the red skull in the story recently in the newest issue #20 and the third part of the arc she got punched in the face by deadpool then rogue whose being mind controlled by the red skull punches a hole through deadpool it's really crazy but that along with thunderbolts are telling their own story as lead ins to secret empire.

But back on topic yeah it's highly unlikely sin is Elisa Sinclair since Elisa is Madame hydra and isn't anywhere near the red skull as far as we know and there's even been hints that Elisa especially in the flashbacks wants to bring hydra to its pre nazi status while the red skull wants to maintain the nazi leanings of hydra also Elisa has black hair I believe sin has red hair.

I will say it'll be interesting if Elisa Sinclair is revealed to be version of Kobik that was created in human form when Kobik rewrote Steves memories and history.

I think Elisa Sinclair is ultimately going to be revealed mid way into secret empire to be the true villian of the story I kinda want her to be the villian of the story too since in a way it makes sense since she was the one who manipulated and corrupted Steve into becoming a hydra agent more so after she killed his mother when Steves mother tried to get Steve in an effort to run away from hydra.

Honestly, I haven't read Uncanny Avengers since Synapse joined. The Red Skull is just not a villain that I like to follow; as well. A pre-nazism Hydra does interest me, though. I want to see what Steve's vision for the organization entails. I don't think that he's an anarchist. Maybe he doesn't have one and Elisa is calling the shots. What's she going to do with Taskmaster and Black Ant. Taskmaster has some authority in Bagalia but not much else.

[Michael Watkins]

If Elisa Sinclair and Kobik are the same, they would have to meld the two into one entity at some point, I'd say, so your rationale could be followed, and everything done to Kobik could be done on an adult level. But the child that is Kobik/Cosmic cube needs to embrace an aging up for this to happen so that action could be taken against it. Has there ever been a personification of a Cosmic Cube before? Like a real person with the power of a Cosmic Cube?

Kobik can alter "her" appearance. She might have done so to fit into whatever time period that she transported Bucky to. She said that she was going to fix everything. Her primary caregivers were the Red Skull and Selvig; both Hydra. Being with Bucky may have softened her stance; caused her to revolt. Cosmic beings tend to evolve quickly; like Mutant Alpha.