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  1. #196
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Yeah, that's something I've really felt strongly about with this newest cycle; the pacing in each issue is slightly off making the endings seem unfinished and the various side plots fragmented. It's definitely one of those books that feels like it will read ten times better in trade.
    I've finally caught up on The Devil You Know (but still haven't read most of BPRD; Hell on Earth; nor Abe Sapien) this weekend after buying issue #8 on Saturday. Read #1-5 in the tpb, now reading individual issues.
    Still much I'm trying to digest/figure out as I go along, but I'll agree it seems a bit too fragmented in each issue, as if they're trying to pull together too many things at one time every issue. After buying/reading issue #10, I just might go back to getting the rest in tpb collections so I can read things in chunks at a time than the issue-by-monthly-issue doses. (Might make things a bit more easily digestible that way.)

  2. #197
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Due out in stores on Wednesday, August 8th:

    B.P.R.D.: The Devil You Know #9
    The B.P.R.D. arrive in New York to an immediate attack by cultists-turned-zombies and familiar demons.
    Writer: Mike Mignola, Scott Allie
    Artist: Laurence Campbell
    Colorist: Dave Stewart
    Cover Artist: Mike Mignola, Max Fiumara
    Genre: Horror
    Publication Date: August 08, 2018
    Format: FC, 32 pages; Ongoing
    <U.S. cover> Price: $3.99
    UPC: 7 61568 00185 3 00911
    https://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/29-...vil-You-Know-9

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathRidingAnElephant View Post
    Kroenen’s death was disappointing. The conflict of interest between him and Varvara needed way more development, it felt like it came out of nowhere. His death felt cheap, and I’m curious why they brought him and Kurtz back but have done nothing substantial with either of them. I’m hoping Von Klempt gets better treatment. Not my favorite issue, but I understand they needed the BPRD to get on the same page as the readers.
    I agree. There was sort of a build up for Kroenen and Kurtz since the start of the Hellboy series even if they "were just there" most of the time.
    When they were brought back before Hell on Earth I thought something more would be done with them but again most of the time they were just there.
    Kurtz is now a prisoner of the BPRD but we still have no idea how much he has told them about what past paranormal threats he and Kroenen have been involved in, what Zinco's role has been in the current situation world, or his Nazi Germany connection.
    And now Kroenen is completely out the picture, dying a rather inconsequential death.

    It kind of feels that The Voice of the Dragon was done to give the two some significant exposure as their chronological later appearance is of little matter or relevance.

    Also have to agree that some plot points really seem half developed or very quickly resolved.

  4. #199
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    This may be Allie's greatest page ever

    B.P.R.D. - The Devil You Know #9 (2018) - Page 22.jpg
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    Last edited by The Lobster; 08-10-2018 at 06:27 AM.

  5. #200
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    Suddenly, Everyone is dying too fast! Won't say I'm disappointing But this make me feel like many great opportunities are wasted. I know this is the last cycle of series and I expected some casualties. but come on, just like that?
    Last edited by didism; 08-11-2018 at 10:10 AM.

  6. #201

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    What an insane issue. It’s strange going from 8 issues of build up to one that is such “balls to wall” from beginning to end. Judging any issue of this series without context is hard with Allie’s long term storytelling, but this seems like one of his best. I understand the battle is moving too fast for more personal moments, but I am hoping the dead characters get some form of closure in the next few issues. I know it would be cheap storytelling but I would not mind if our more durable friend survived.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeathRidingAnElephant View Post
    What an insane issue. It’s strange going from 8 issues of build up to one that is such “balls to wall” from beginning to end. Judging any issue of this series without context is hard with Allie’s long term storytelling, but this seems like one of his best. I understand the battle is moving too fast for more personal moments, but I am hoping the dead characters get some form of closure in the next few issues. I know it would be cheap storytelling but I would not mind if our more durable friend survived.
    I’m almost 100% certain he’s fine.

  8. #203
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    It's been my complaint all along during this latest cycle that there are too many concurrent plots running through this book and so because of that the pacing can feel choppy and moments that feel like they should have a lot of impact are rushed to the point where they have none...and this issue is no different.spoilers:
    We have Devon's moment of seduction...which without any build up or tension makes his turn on his fellow agents meaningless. We have Agent Carla's death at the hands of Devon happen with a single gunshot that causes her to slowly bleeds to death in the background while Abe and Hellboy battle a demon...so she's just a piece of the scenery. And then we get a flash to Maggie the mystic down in South Carolina...which isn't seemingly related to anything going on. Taken together it's all very jumbled, these are moments that should be huge and because there are so many and because there is this seemingly huge urge to wrap things up it's all rushed which is sad. Don't get me wrong though there are still some moments that do really shine: Hellboy and Abe tag teaming the demon was classic, and the Death of Ashley Strode at the hands of Varvara was absolutely perfect, next to the deaths of Abe and Hellboy her passing was one of the truly momentous happenings of this book...but again all though it did have a great emotional impact it was a little stunted as it wasn't the end of the issue but rather the lead in to the real big twist finale
    end of spoilers


    And I'm not sure how I feel about that ending. While bringing that character back again does make sense from a narrative point of view with the end mirroring the beginning I really liked the end he seemingly got in spoilers:
    Darkness Calls
    end of spoilers so it seems a shame to diminish that. But I guess until we see it play out in the next arc we can't really judge that.

  9. #204
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    I think I might disagree with almost everything you just said, but I do see what youÂ’re saying. I guess IÂ’m a fan of the pace we are moving at. That we are experiencing loss both meaningful and meaningless mirrors the tone weÂ’ve been experiencing throughout the BPRD run, and while it could be moving at a slower rate, you could also question why that would be necessary.

    spoilers:
    DevonÂ’s end makes complete sense. HeÂ’s weak willed and bitter. We saw this characterization through most of Hell on Earth.

    Giarocco, while being a named character and having no small amount of weight in the series, is still only a Tian level character, and an unpowered human at that. We knew her death was coming soon, because it had been a part of LizÂ’s prophecy. IÂ’ll miss her.

    Strode. Well shit. She did her job. SheÂ’s got no answer to the power of the Ogdru Jahad though. The deck is being cleared with purpose.

    We have Hellboy, Abe, Liz, Howards and Fenix now, right? Maybe that invincible Russian guy whose name I canÂ’t remember right now. The end is here.

    Hecate is coming.

    I guess I have a couple of questions. Are we supposed to believe that Varvara, who is so calculating under the demon’s control, would step out now to confront the group when she could rely so easily on attrition to wear them down? What was her endgame here?

    Also, she’s Rasputin’s daughter! This actually makes a ton of sense. She’s one of the missing presumed dead Romanovs, which explains her clothing, but she was Rasputin’s child. The demon chose her body because she had a position of influence, or maybe because it understood how dangerous she would become in the grand scheme of things.

    I personally think this was a solid (not perfect) issue, and that I can’t wait to see what’s next in the (maybe final) arc.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by zerodemon; 09-14-2018 at 09:11 AM.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    It's been my complaint all along during this latest cycle that there are too many concurrent plots running through this book and so because of that the pacing can feel choppy and moments that feel like they should have a lot of impact are rushed to the point where they have none...and this issue is no different.spoilers:
    We have Devon's moment of seduction...which without any build up or tension makes his turn on his fellow agents meaningless. We have Agent Carla's death at the hands of Devon happen with a single gunshot that causes her to slowly bleeds to death in the background while Abe and Hellboy battle a demon...so she's just a piece of the scenery. And then we get a flash to Maggie the mystic down in South Carolina...which isn't seemingly related to anything going on. Taken together it's all very jumbled, these are moments that should be huge and because there are so many and because there is this seemingly huge urge to wrap things up it's all rushed which is sad. Don't get me wrong though there are still some moments that do really shine: Hellboy and Abe tag teaming the demon was classic, and the Death of Ashley Strode at the hands of Varvara was absolutely perfect, next to the deaths of Abe and Hellboy her passing was one of the truly momentous happenings of this book...but again all though it did have a great emotional impact it was a little stunted as it wasn't the end of the issue but rather the lead in to the real big twist finale
    end of spoilers


    And I'm not sure how I feel about that ending. While bringing that character back again does make sense from a narrative point of view with the end mirroring the beginning I really liked the end he seemingly got in spoilers:
    Darkness Calls
    end of spoilers so it seems a shame to diminish that. But I guess until we see it play out in the next arc we can't really judge that.
    I'm also really struggling with this chapter, less for the multiple plotlines--though I do agree it's too hectic a lot of the time--and more because the feel of the book has, to me, gone a bit Big Two. I don't feel like there's a great deal of character development happening. spoilers:
    Though I can see what some people are saying about Devon being a bitter character from the beginning, smashing SO MUCH into one issue felt like whiplash. Imagine a thing like that in Plague of Frogs? It would have happened over an arc or even 2. To do it in one issue is incredibly rushed.
    end of spoilers It feels like the characters are taking a backseat to the plot moving forward, and that's not a thing I anticipate being happy with.

    I also tried to alleviate those thoughts by rereading the Messiah trade and my feelings didn't really change. If Allie is writing for the omnibus, as the guys at Multiversity have commented a couple times, he's really failing to land anything that feels fully thought out or structured.

    But I think the biggest issue I have in terms of character rush is that we've only had about four solid pages of anything like Hellboy's emotional and mental state right now. This entire series/universe was built off of moody, impressionist styles letting the art dictate the pace and tone of the work around it. I don't feel I've connected him as the same character, and not in the good "he's just changed" way. He uses the same one-liners sometimes (Damn!) and punches stuff, but I have absolutely NO sense of what he's feeling or why. The cover of issue 10 told me more than the last four issues, and that scene on the cover never even appears in the book.

    So TL;DR I'm frustrated with the apparent lack of character development and the breakneck pace. If they were struggling to figure out a writing solution after so many creative shake-ups, I really wish they'd just taken a year long break to come up with something solid rather than forged ahead without giving the arc time to breathe. There's plenty of side projects to flesh out that would have kept me satisfied until they felt like picking up the main story again. Sigh. I do really hope I get back into it, but this has been a very difficult half-year of BPRD for me.

    Final note: spoilers:
    FOR GOD'S SAKE LEAVE THE CLASSIC VILLAINS AND CHARACTERS ALONE. Rasputin had a great ending already. It diminishes everything about that ending to have him be playing a long game. The beauty of his passing was that in the end, he was another zealot who put his faith in something that ultimately wasn't interested in rewarding him, and he faded away like so many others who thought they were puppet masters. If, during that entire "maybe a man can make himself a god" bit, he was just waiting for his Varvara card to come into play, that sucks. Maybe we could have used Gylfryd, or whatsisname from Abe Sapien who died so undignifiedly. But Rasputin just makes me feel like I'm reading the 3,000th Batman title where X Dead Villain comes back to life.
    end of spoilers

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckmoak View Post
    I'm also really struggling with this chapter, less for the multiple plotlines--though I do agree it's too hectic a lot of the time--and more because the feel of the book has, to me, gone a bit Big Two. I don't feel like there's a great deal of character development happening. spoilers:
    Though I can see what some people are saying about Devon being a bitter character from the beginning, smashing SO MUCH into one issue felt like whiplash. Imagine a thing like that in Plague of Frogs? It would have happened over an arc or even 2. To do it in one issue is incredibly rushed.
    end of spoilers It feels like the characters are taking a backseat to the plot moving forward, and that's not a thing I anticipate being happy with.

    I also tried to alleviate those thoughts by rereading the Messiah trade and my feelings didn't really change. If Allie is writing for the omnibus, as the guys at Multiversity have commented a couple times, he's really failing to land anything that feels fully thought out or structured.

    But I think the biggest issue I have in terms of character rush is that we've only had about four solid pages of anything like Hellboy's emotional and mental state right now. This entire series/universe was built off of moody, impressionist styles letting the art dictate the pace and tone of the work around it. I don't feel I've connected him as the same character, and not in the good "he's just changed" way. He uses the same one-liners sometimes (Damn!) and punches stuff, but I have absolutely NO sense of what he's feeling or why. The cover of issue 10 told me more than the last four issues, and that scene on the cover never even appears in the book.

    So TL;DR I'm frustrated with the apparent lack of character development and the breakneck pace. If they were struggling to figure out a writing solution after so many creative shake-ups, I really wish they'd just taken a year long break to come up with something solid rather than forged ahead without giving the arc time to breathe. There's plenty of side projects to flesh out that would have kept me satisfied until they felt like picking up the main story again. Sigh. I do really hope I get back into it, but this has been a very difficult half-year of BPRD for me.

    Final note: spoilers:
    FOR GOD'S SAKE LEAVE THE CLASSIC VILLAINS AND CHARACTERS ALONE. Rasputin had a great ending already. It diminishes everything about that ending to have him be playing a long game. The beauty of his passing was that in the end, he was another zealot who put his faith in something that ultimately wasn't interested in rewarding him, and he faded away like so many others who thought they were puppet masters. If, during that entire "maybe a man can make himself a god" bit, he was just waiting for his Varvara card to come into play, that sucks. Maybe we could have used Gylfryd, or whatsisname from Abe Sapien who died so undignifiedly. But Rasputin just makes me feel like I'm reading the 3,000th Batman title where X Dead Villain comes back to life.
    end of spoilers

    At this risk of this seeming like a merry go round I definitely strongly disagree with nearly every point of this. Using plague of frogs as a criticism for quick deaths is rather strange as perhaps the most major deaths of the series pre devil you know happened almost entirely out of the blue in seconds.

    I don't agree that it is too rushed and honestly I am a bit confused that a battle situation such as this moving quickly is surprising so many readers. I have significant problems with the big two comparison. Very few big two books are willing to have actual consequence and long term continuity like this. I feel it does a disservice to the book as a whole to make the general comparison.

    spoilers:
    I think with the way the battle has been built up and the scale at which they are operating now regular humans dying so quickly should be the expected decision not a surprising one. If anything I consider these past two issues to be a textbook example of how to slow down something that should be a climax with unneeded details. People should be dropping like flies at this stage.

    I also strongly disagree on hellboy's character. There are at least a dozen good examples between his silence, the hell flashback, his talks with abe and liz, his grim speech just before NY, and his reaction to seeing destroyed manhattan that paint his character well. Sure he still quips but Hellboy has had the same demeanor towards scenarios like this for 20 years at this point so I don't think that is too surprising. I have trouble imagining not knowing what hellboy is feeling when he's pretty openly stated it in earlier issues and is currently busy fighting.


    end of spoilers

    I also feeling general long slow grieving moments have little place in the story now. The characters are accustomed to death and in a situation where they cannot slow down. As this is the end that ties it all together I believe most of the development has happened to get them here. Now we see what these developed people do in these fast paced situations. I'm actually quite impressed with how dense each issue feels andhowmany subtle moments are fitted into each one.

    TL;DR I think there is strong if subtle development within the arc and the breakneck pace is required for the state of the world now. I have a really rough time finding fault in a "rushed" battle that happens how I would imagine it would and in these deaths being rushed when most previous deaths have been similar.

    As for that final moment.

    spoilers:
    I've seen two people say it cheapens Rasputin's "death" but we've known a piece of his soul was saved for a long time. yes the baba yaga betrayed and cast him out but her servant did not. And we've known since Koschei that following the roots of the tree does not destroy what is thrown so he's never really gone anywhere and I don't get why people thought he was for sure dead. Also Varvara being his real historical daughter's name (as i've recently learned) means they have clearly planned this for ages right under our noses and it isn't some knee jerk reaction. As for praise the jahad even gave rasputin credit in the fury so I don't think he was ever cast out except by baba yaga who herself is now kind spirited in a peculiar way. I also enjoy the angle that literally in Seed of destruction he claims hell is coming to earth and the earth will burn so really we've always known this and just didn't realize.

    Once again I find the batman comparison silly at best. We can't be sure he's even back as more than a spirit as he always was yet and a piece of his soul has never stopped existing in continuity. Not to mention the jahad being freed is practically certain so it makes sense he would be the one to do it. I also find it humorous that his soul was dropped into hell and his return was in the arc where hell comes to earth.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by legendx66; 09-15-2018 at 09:11 PM.

  12. #207
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    It’s also kind of redundant to critique Allie’s work issue by issue. We’ve experienced this same thing all the way through the Abe Sapien story and again in Messiah. His books are seemingly always written with the trade paperback in mind, which is occasionally frustrating for the monthly reader, but once you have 50+ volumes of a story in the bank behind you (BPRD+Hellboy+Abe) it kind of makes sense to not worry about the individual issue and play for the arc, especially at this late stage.

  13. #208
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    All those deaths are getting to me. I don't know if I want to leave these books, after decades, with almost everyone dead. (I figure there are more deaths coming)
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    All those deaths are getting to me. I don't know if I want to leave these books, after decades, with almost everyone dead. (I figure there are more deaths coming)
    Well you know, There comes a time when the old characters die. The brave die with the cunning! The noble perish locked in battle with unleashed evil. It is the last day for them! An era of great comics passing in fiery holocaust!

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerodemon View Post
    Well you know, There comes a time when the old characters die. The brave die with the cunning! The noble perish locked in battle with unleashed evil. It is the last day for them! An era of great comics passing in fiery holocaust!
    200.jpg

    Couldn't help myself.

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